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THE TEMPLE OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

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  • Dennis Goffin
    Reading Paul s speech to the Athenians, I was struck by his repetition of the identical statement made by Stephen that God does not live in houses (shrines)
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 4, 2010
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      Reading Paul's speech to the Athenians, I was struck by his repetition of the identical statement made by Stephen that God " does not live in houses (shrines) made by human hands ". I can't help feeling that this was at the heart of the outrage caused to traditional Jews by the Jesus sect. It ties in too, with the strange accusation made against Jesus that he "will build another (temple), not made with hands" (Mk. 14:58). The whole idea echoes Enoch 90: 28/9, as well as Rev.21:2 and Ezekiel 40/48. The DSS also have a lot on the subject dating from the turn of the era. The prophets had downplayed the relative importance of the Temple cult in comparison with right living and Jesus, echoing their message suffered the same fate as theirs. The beneficiaries of the status quo in Jerusalem did not welcome this boat-rocking message and decided to shoot the messenger.

      Or so it seems to me.

      Dennis Goffin

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lewis Reich
      I do not think that would have caused any outrage to the rest of the Jewish population. We should recall that the members of the Jesus sect continued to
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 5, 2010
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        I do not think that would have caused any outrage to the rest of the Jewish
        population. We should recall that the members of the Jesus sect continued
        to worship at the Temple after Jesus' death. If the rest of the Jewish
        community had been so outraged, I think that they would have made some
        difficulty about that.

        The "temple not made with hands" accusation certainly is strange, but of
        course we do not know whether Jesus actually said something along those
        lines or whether the accusation is historical and not simply part of Mark's
        theology.

        Lewis Reich

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      • E Bruce Brooks
        To: Crosstalk In Response To: Lewis Reich On: The Jerusalem Temple From: Bruce LEWIS: We should recall that the members of the Jesus sect continued to worship
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 6, 2010
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          To: Crosstalk
          In Response To: Lewis Reich
          On: The Jerusalem Temple
          From: Bruce

          LEWIS: We should recall that the members of the Jesus sect continued
          to worship at the Temple after Jesus' death.

          BRUCE: So says Acts. But Acts is notoriously schematic and inventive
          where we would most like it to be historical. Acts, for example,
          considers that the Jerusalem Christians were the only Christians in
          existence in the years immediately after Jesus's death; on other
          grounds, this is very unlikely. Such a picture is quite possibly an
          artifact of what I have called Jerusalemization in the Christian
          movement's idea of its own history (there is a steady increase of
          Jerusalem prominence in the Gospel sequence Mk > Mt > Lk [Acts] > Jn).

          But even for the Jerusalem Christians, who undoubtedly did exist, are
          we safe in taking their Temple worship as an assured fact? What other
          evidence is there? I exclude in advance any tales of Jacob, the
          alleged Brother of the Lord, from hundreds of years later. And lacking
          other evidence, what is suggested by other parts of Acts itself? Does
          it seem as though the Peter cell group, two of whose members he put to
          death for not giving enough money to the collective treasury, was
          worshiping at the Temple? I tend to see them as pretty much off by
          themselves.


          Bruce

          E Bruce Brooks
          Warring States Project
          University of Massachusetts at Amherst
        • Dennis Goffin
          I agree that those Jews who had no economic interest in the Temple and the position of authority that it gave them politically may not have been offended by
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 6, 2010
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            I agree that those Jews who had no economic interest in the Temple and the position of authority that it gave them politically may not have been offended by the Utopian dream of a New Jerusalem and a New Temple. They would in fact have been more likely to have espoused it. The preaching of the imminent end of the current world and talk of the position of the rich and poor being reversed, was, however, strongly destabilising of the status quo, as Josephus recounts regarding the other Messianic pretenders, and my point is that the Jewish establishment didn't like it and framed the preacher on a charge of sedition against Rome.

            Dennis Goffin
            Chorleywood UK





            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Lewis Reich
            To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 3:42 AM
            Subject: RE: [XTalk] THE TEMPLE OF THE NEW JERUSALEM




            I do not think that would have caused any outrage to the rest of the Jewish
            population. We should recall that the members of the Jesus sect continued
            to worship at the Temple after Jesus' death. If the rest of the Jewish
            community had been so outraged, I think that they would have made some
            difficulty about that.

            The "temple not made with hands" accusation certainly is strange, but of
            course we do not know whether Jesus actually said something along those
            lines or whether the accusation is historical and not simply part of Mark's
            theology.

            Lewis Reich

            ------------------------------------

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            crosstalk2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

            To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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