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Re: [XTalk] English translation of Pierson & Naber's _Verisimilia_?

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  • Stephen C. Carlson
    ... My impression of Pierson & Naber is more that they show how the texts of Paul (plus Acts and John) ought to be stratified based on their hypothesis, rather
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 11 3:01 PM
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      On Jul 11, 2009 1:14 PM, "David C. Hindley" <dhindley@...> wrote:
      >What I recall was looking at a web page by someone who owned a copy of the
      >original and offered his opinion as to its "brilliance." My only exposure has been
      >the comments in Schweitzer, who faults them for only offering a hypothesis
      >without arguing out their points in detail.

      My impression of Pierson & Naber is more that they show how the texts of
      Paul (plus Acts and John) ought to be stratified based on their hypothesis,
      rather than actually making a case for it.

      >I am not endorsing Dutch radical criticism, although IMHO many modern critics
      >make similar assumptions about the processes and likely historical developments
      >that contributed to early Christianity as we know it from the NT and early Christian
      >literature. I would like to get a better idea of what kinds of issues spurred on the
      >likes of Loman, etc, without having to enroll in graduate school or learn how to
      >properly read ecclesiastical Latin.

      I only made the point about the Dutch radical criticism in assessing its likelihood
      of being translated. A lot of those works remained in Dutch and German and were
      never translated into English. Their main audience after the decline of the school
      is primarily only those scholars with a bent for the history of biblical criticism. I
      have a feeling grad school wouldn't help very much for learning more about them
      (many professors find the history of scholarship dreadful), but learning German,
      Dutch, and modern Latin and reading their works first-hand would.

      Stephen

      --
      Stephen C. Carlson
      Ph.D. student, Religion, Duke University
      Author of The Gospel Hoax: Morton Smith's Invention of Secret Mark (Baylor, 2005)
    • Bob Schacht
      ... Would Leudeman be any help in getting a handle on this work? Bob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 11 7:06 PM
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        At 12:01 PM 7/11/2009, Stephen C. Carlson wrote:
        >On Jul 11, 2009 1:14 PM, "David C. Hindley" <dhindley@...> wrote:
        > >What I recall was looking at a web page by someone who owned a copy of the
        > >original and offered his opinion as to its "brilliance." My only
        > exposure has been
        > >the comments in Schweitzer, who faults them for only offering a hypothesis
        > >without arguing out their points in detail.
        >
        >My impression of Pierson & Naber is more that they show how the texts of
        >Paul (plus Acts and John) ought to be stratified based on their hypothesis,
        >rather than actually making a case for it.
        >
        > >I am not endorsing Dutch radical criticism, although IMHO many modern
        > critics
        > >make similar assumptions about the processes and likely historical
        > developments
        > >that contributed to early Christianity as we know it from the NT and
        > early Christian
        > >literature. I would like to get a better idea of what kinds of issues
        > spurred on the
        > >likes of Loman, etc, without having to enroll in graduate school or
        > learn how to
        > >properly read ecclesiastical Latin.
        >
        >I only made the point about the Dutch radical criticism in assessing its
        >likelihood
        >of being translated. A lot of those works remained in Dutch and German
        >and were
        >never translated into English. Their main audience after the decline of
        >the school
        >is primarily only those scholars with a bent for the history of biblical
        >criticism. I
        >have a feeling grad school wouldn't help very much for learning more about
        >them
        >(many professors find the history of scholarship dreadful), but learning
        >German,
        >Dutch, and modern Latin and reading their works first-hand would.
        >
        >Stephen

        Would Leudeman be any help in getting a handle on this work?

        Bob


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David C. Hindley
        You mean Gerd Luedemann? _Opposition to Paul in Jewish Christianity_ translated by M. Eugene Boring.(1989) _Paul, the founder of Christianity_ (2002) Or did
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 12 2:52 PM
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          You mean Gerd Luedemann?

          _Opposition to Paul in Jewish Christianity_ translated by M. Eugene Boring.(1989)

          _Paul, the founder of Christianity_ (2002)

          Or did you mean Hermann L.?

          Dave Hindley

          --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, Bob Schacht <r_schacht@...> wrote:
          >
          > Would Leudeman be any help in getting a handle on this work?
          >
          > Bob
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Bob Schacht
          ... No, I was thinking about Gerd, particularly since he did a Seminar with us a while back. Bob ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 12 3:32 PM
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            At 11:52 AM 7/12/2009, David C. Hindley wrote:
            >You mean Gerd Luedemann?
            >
            >_Opposition to Paul in Jewish Christianity_ translated by M. Eugene
            >Boring.(1989)
            >
            >_Paul, the founder of Christianity_ (2002)

            No, I was thinking about Gerd, particularly since he did a Seminar with us
            a while back.

            Bob


            >Or did you mean Hermann L.?
            >
            >Dave Hindley
            >
            >--- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, Bob Schacht <r_schacht@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Would Leudeman be any help in getting a handle on this work?
            > >
            > > Bob
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen C. Carlson
            ... Well, Gerd is much more conservative with the state of the text than Pierson and Naber. Stephen -- Stephen C. Carlson Ph.D. student, Religion, Duke
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 12 4:42 PM
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              On Jul 12, 2009 6:32 PM, Bob Schacht <r_schacht@...> wrote:
              >No, I was thinking about Gerd, particularly since he did a Seminar with us
              >a while back.

              Well, Gerd is much more conservative with the state of the text than
              Pierson and Naber.

              Stephen

              --
              Stephen C. Carlson
              Ph.D. student, Religion, Duke University
              Author of The Gospel Hoax: Morton Smith's Invention of Secret Mark (Baylor, 2005)
            • Bob Schacht
              ... That may be, but I m guessing that he is fluent in the language Pierson & Naber wrote in, and might be able to discuss honestly with us what they are
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 12 4:57 PM
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                At 01:42 PM 7/12/2009, Stephen C. Carlson wrote:
                >On Jul 12, 2009 6:32 PM, Bob Schacht <r_schacht@...> wrote:
                > >No, I was thinking about Gerd, particularly since he did a Seminar with us
                > >a while back.
                >
                >Well, Gerd is much more conservative with the state of the text than
                >Pierson and Naber.

                That may be, but I'm guessing that he is fluent in the language Pierson &
                Naber wrote in, and might be able to discuss honestly with us what they are
                suggesting?

                Bob


                >Stephen
                >
                >--
                >Stephen C. Carlson
                >Ph.D. student, Religion, Duke University
                >Author of The Gospel Hoax: Morton Smith's Invention of Secret Mark
                >(Baylor, 2005)
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >The XTalk Home Page is http://ntgateway.com/xtalk/
                >
                >To subscribe to Xtalk, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >List managers may be contacted directly at: crosstalk2-owners@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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