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Re: [XTalk] Matt 4:3//Lk. 4:3

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  • David Cavanagh
    Dear Jeffrey, Thanks....so the point would be that instead of proving his own power, Jesus is being tempted to prove that he (the personal representative of
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 30, 2008
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      Dear Jeffrey,

      Thanks....so the point would be that instead of proving his own power,
      Jesus is being tempted to prove that he (the personal representative of
      the new Israel) is specially favoured by God?

      David Cavanagh
      Major (The Salvation Army)
      Naples (Italy)



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jeffrey B. Gibson
      ... First of all, he is not tempted. He is tested. And there is absolutely no hint in the temptation story that Jesus is in need of, or is in any way
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 30, 2008
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        David Cavanagh wrote:
        > Dear Jeffrey,
        >
        > Thanks....so the point would be that instead of proving his own power,
        > Jesus is being tempted to prove that he (the personal representative of
        > the new Israel) is specially favoured by God?
        >
        First of all, he is not tempted. He is tested. And there is absolutely
        no hint in the "temptation" story that Jesus is in need of, or is in any
        way concerned about, having it proved that he is the object of God's
        special favour. That he is -- and that he and the Devil know it -- is
        the presupposition of the story.

        Jesus is tested to see if he will refuse to do what Israel did when
        under the hardship of 'hunger', they, contrary to what Deut. 8: (cf.
        esp. vv. 15-17; cf. Deut. 6:16) says they should have done, put god to
        the test and demanded that God fulfill his obligations to "his son" by
        feeding them.

        Jeffrey

        --
        Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
        1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
        Chicago, Illinois
        e-mail jgibson000@...
      • David Cavanagh
        ... Fair point about temptation and testing: I m aware of the argument, but just followed the traditional (and majority) translation. If Jesus is being
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 30, 2008
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          >
          >
          > Dear Jeffrey, you wrote:
          > >
          > First of all, he is not tempted. He is tested. And there is absolutely
          > no hint in the "temptation" story that Jesus is in need of, or is in any
          > way concerned about, having it proved that he is the object of God's
          > special favour. That he is -- and that he and the Devil know it -- is
          > the presupposition of the story.
          >








          Fair point about temptation and testing: I'm aware of the argument, but
          just followed the traditional (and majority) translation.

          If Jesus is being paralleled with Israel, however, I suggest that builds
          in the question of God's favour. That both Jesus and the Devil know that
          Jesus is God's "son" is true; but unless we opt for a simple appeal for
          hunger, what is the Devil supposed to be hinging the test on? "Go on, if
          you're really God's (beloved) Son, prove it! Tell him to turn these
          stones into bread, then you'll have something to eat!". I'm aware, as
          you suggest in the following paragraph (below) that the issue at stake
          is trust -but the nature of testing/temptation is that the real issue is
          veiled (it's not very effective to say, "I'm going to test your trust
          now"!).
          >
          >
          > Jesus is tested to see if he will refuse to do what Israel did when
          > under the hardship of 'hunger', they, contrary to what Deut. 8: (cf.
          > esp. vv. 15-17; cf. Deut. 6:16) says they should have done, put god to
          > the test and demanded that God fulfill his obligations to "his son" by
          > feeding them.
          >








          David Cavanagh
          Major (The Salvation Army)
          Naples (Italy)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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