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Galilean Economics

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  • Steven Deedon
    I find it helpful to read the more moderate scholars like Meier and Sanders dialectically AGAINST folks like Crossan, Funk, Robinson and Borg. And of course I
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 22 7:06 PM
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      I find it helpful to read the more moderate scholars like Meier and
      Sanders dialectically AGAINST folks like Crossan, Funk, Robinson and Borg. And of course I may wind up sorting through a sea of other arguments on a given issue. Eventually I'm often able to come up with a synthesis, a sense of majority opinion -- or at least a strong confidence in a particular argument.

      However, in the case of the economics of Galilee during
      Jesus' adulthood, daily life within class strata, etc., I am not quite so confident.

      Crossan and -- a cursory look at some others -- suggests peasant life was miserable, full of resentments, etc., and that Jesus' teachings have strong political implications.

      Meier would say things were not so bad. And if remember correctly from a conversation with Sanders, he would agree. (Sanders also said to me, "Meier is usually right.")

      I guess I'm hoping others have made more progress on this subject and can share some ideas on it. Maybe they've simply read things I haven't, or spent more time thinking through this issue. (I'm under pressure to finish up a project, so I'm hoping I might get to a better understanding faster than I might on my own.)

      Steve



      Steven Deedon
      stevendeedon@...
      203-507-6970

      "It is not happiness that makes us grateful but gratefulness that makes us
      happy." - Br. David Steindl-Rast


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James Crossley
      I m not so sure the stark opposition is always helpful and it often gets bogged down in debates of standard of living. There s nothing wrong with such debates
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 23 3:31 AM
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        I'm not so sure the stark opposition is always helpful
        and it often gets bogged down in debates of standard
        of living. There's nothing wrong with such debates but
        in some ways the miss important points. One important
        point is that we have two major urban projects in
        Galilee happening while Jesus was growing up, namely
        the building of Tiberias and the rebuilding of
        Sepphoris. This would have had an impact on
        urban-rural relations (where do you get labour, food
        etc...). Now Some might argue it was for the better
        for many (I'm not so sure but we can leave that for
        now) but it would have some kind of social change.
        Some of the social sciences used to illuminate this
        kind of context (esp. Hobsbawm but there are others)
        have made the subtle point that *perception* is
        significant: if certain people perceived that things
        were for the worse (and this happens in various social
        contexts, often irrespective of the 'standard of
        living'). We might add to this, though we have to be
        careful with dating etc, that there was serious hatred
        aimed at the two major Galilean urban centres by the
        time of the Jewish war which may reflect more deep
        rooted problem (cf. also the issues of poverty
        reflected in the synoptic tradition). This sort of
        approach does not necessarily rule out (or in) the
        approaches to the historical Jesus from Sanders to
        Crossan and it at least shows that the 'conflict
        approach' can work without the tricky issues of
        measuring what the 'standard of living' was like in
        Galilee at the time of Jesus.

        James Crossley
        Dept of Biblical Studies
        University of Sheffield, UK



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      • Jack Kilmon
        ... From: Steven Deedon To: Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: [XTalk] Galilean Economics
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 23 7:24 AM
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Steven Deedon" <stevendeedon@...>
          To: <crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:06 PM
          Subject: [XTalk] Galilean Economics


          >I find it helpful to read the more moderate scholars like Meier and
          > Sanders dialectically AGAINST folks like Crossan, Funk, Robinson and Borg.
          > And of course I may wind up sorting through a sea of other arguments on a
          > given issue. Eventually I'm often able to come up with a synthesis, a
          > sense of majority opinion -- or at least a strong confidence in a
          > particular argument.
          >
          > However, in the case of the economics of Galilee during
          > Jesus' adulthood, daily life within class strata, etc., I am not quite so
          > confident.
          >
          > Crossan and -- a cursory look at some others -- suggests peasant life was
          > miserable, full of resentments, etc., and that Jesus' teachings have
          > strong political implications.
          >
          > Meier would say things were not so bad. And if remember correctly from a
          > conversation with Sanders, he would agree. (Sanders also said to me,
          > "Meier is usually right.")
          >
          > I guess I'm hoping others have made more progress on this subject and can
          > share some ideas on it. Maybe they've simply read things I haven't, or
          > spent more time thinking through this issue. (I'm under pressure to
          > finish up a project, so I'm hoping I might get to a better understanding
          > faster than I might on my own.)
          >
          > Steve
          >
          >
          >
          > Steven Deedon
          > stevendeedon@...
          > 203-507-6970


          This is an important issue, IMO, because one cannot do serious HJ research
          without a grounding in the social and cultural anthropology as well as the
          class structure from which he rose and moved. I have read the works you
          mention but rely heavily on Richard Horsley's two books, Archaeology,
          History and Society in Galilee and Galilee: History, Politics, People. Also
          I find Jeremias' Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus and Perdue, etal Families in
          Ancient Israel for more perspective.

          Jack

          Jack Kilmon
          San Antonio, TX
        • William Arnal
          ... Yes, Horsley is a great source for this stuff. A VERY recent (2007 or 2008) publication that is dead-on this issue (Galilean economics and the HJ) is
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 23 7:34 AM
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            Jack Kilmon writes:

            >I have read the works you
            >mention but rely heavily on Richard Horsley's two books, Archaeology,
            >History and Society in Galilee and Galilee: History, Politics, People.

            Yes, Horsley is a great source for this stuff. A VERY recent (2007 or 2008) publication that is dead-on this issue (Galilean economics and the HJ) is Douglas Oakman's _Jesus and the Peasants_. Also, if I may be immodest, Arnal's _Jesus and the Village Scribes_ chapter 4 has a fairly focused analysis of Galilean economics specifically, and the archaeological as well as literary evidence thereof, and focuses precisely on the issues that James Crossley noted: the foundation of the urban centers, resultant monetization of the economy, and the PERCEPTION (or lack thereof) of change among the peasantry.

            Also valuable would be anything by Jonathan Reed, or Milton Moreland.

            For what it's worth, I don't think global characterizations of scholarly positions as "liberal" or "conservative" or "moderate" are especially helpful.

            regards,
            Bill


            _________________________________________________________________
            If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
            http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jack Kilmon
            Durn Bill. A quick trip to Amazon and I am $32.60 poorer. You better autograph it for me. Seriously, it looks like a great read and an important one. I
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 23 10:12 AM
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              Durn Bill. A quick trip to Amazon and I am $32.60 poorer. You better
              autograph it for me.

              Seriously, it looks like a great read and an important one. I amred-faced
              that I missed it.

              Jack

              Jack Kilmon
              San Antonio, TX


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "William Arnal" <warnal@...>
              To: <crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:34 AM
              Subject: RE: [XTalk] Galilean Economics


              >
              >
              > Jack Kilmon writes:
              >
              >>I have read the works you
              >>mention but rely heavily on Richard Horsley's two books, Archaeology,
              >>History and Society in Galilee and Galilee: History, Politics, People.
              >
              > Yes, Horsley is a great source for this stuff. A VERY recent (2007 or
              > 2008) publication that is dead-on this issue (Galilean economics and the
              > HJ) is Douglas Oakman's _Jesus and the Peasants_. Also, if I may be
              > immodest, Arnal's _Jesus and the Village Scribes_ chapter 4 has a fairly
              > focused analysis of Galilean economics specifically, and the
              > archaeological as well as literary evidence thereof, and focuses precisely
              > on the issues that James Crossley noted: the foundation of the urban
              > centers, resultant monetization of the economy, and the PERCEPTION (or
              > lack thereof) of change among the peasantry.
              >
              > Also valuable would be anything by Jonathan Reed, or Milton Moreland.
              >
              > For what it's worth, I don't think global characterizations of scholarly
              > positions as "liberal" or "conservative" or "moderate" are especially
              > helpful.
              >
              > regards,
              > Bill
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which
              > combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
              > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
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            • James Spinti
              Too bad. Eisenbrauns has it for $20.80... Bigger isn t always cheaper :) James ________________________________ James Spinti Marketing Director, Book Sales
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 23 10:21 AM
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                Too bad. Eisenbrauns has it for $20.80...

                Bigger isn't always cheaper :)

                James

                ________________________________
                James Spinti
                Marketing Director, Book Sales Division
                Eisenbrauns, Good books for more than 30 years
                Specializing in Ancient Near Eastern and Biblical Studies
                jspinti at eisenbrauns dot com
                Web: http://www.eisenbrauns.com
                Phone: 574-269-2011 ext 226
                Fax: 574-269-6788

                -----Original Message-----
                From: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Jack Kilmon
                Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:13 PM
                To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [XTalk] Galilean Economics

                Durn Bill. A quick trip to Amazon and I am $32.60 poorer. You better
                autograph it for me.

                Seriously, it looks like a great read and an important one. I
                amred-faced
                that I missed it.

                Jack

                Jack Kilmon
                San Antonio, TX


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "William Arnal" <warnal@...>
                To: <crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:34 AM
                Subject: RE: [XTalk] Galilean Economics


                >
                >
                > Jack Kilmon writes:
                >
                >>I have read the works you
                >>mention but rely heavily on Richard Horsley's two books, Archaeology,
                >>History and Society in Galilee and Galilee: History, Politics, People.
                >
                > Yes, Horsley is a great source for this stuff. A VERY recent (2007 or
                > 2008) publication that is dead-on this issue (Galilean economics and
                the
                > HJ) is Douglas Oakman's _Jesus and the Peasants_. Also, if I may be
                > immodest, Arnal's _Jesus and the Village Scribes_ chapter 4 has a
                fairly
                > focused analysis of Galilean economics specifically, and the
                > archaeological as well as literary evidence thereof, and focuses
                precisely
                > on the issues that James Crossley noted: the foundation of the urban
                > centers, resultant monetization of the economy, and the PERCEPTION (or

                > lack thereof) of change among the peasantry.
                >
                > Also valuable would be anything by Jonathan Reed, or Milton Moreland.
                >
                > For what it's worth, I don't think global characterizations of
                scholarly
                > positions as "liberal" or "conservative" or "moderate" are especially
                > helpful.
                >
                > regards,
                > Bill
                >
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which

                > combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
                > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > The XTalk Home Page is http://ntgateway.com/xtalk/
                >
                > To subscribe to Xtalk, send an e-mail to:
                > crosstalk2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to:
                crosstalk2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > List managers may be contacted directly at:
                > crosstalk2-owners@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                ------------------------------------

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