Noll Re: FW: [XTalk] The Mutilation of Mark's Gospel
- At 02:04 PM 7/20/2007, K L Noll wrote:
>Having said all this ..., I still have not yet bought Croy'sI really like this suggestion. The emphasis on J the B in the gospels
>hypothesis. So I have a question: Croy says that the missing part
>of Mark's beginning must not have included a birth narrative. Croy
>says this because Croy believes that Mark 1:9 seems to introduce
>Jesus for the first time. So, in Croy's view, the missing part
>would have been a more complete description of John the Baptist.
seems incompletely explained, and we know from Paul's letters that
Paul encountered disciples of J the B on his missionary journeys. Of
course, this material could later have become controversial, and may
have been removed by the keeper of the document on purpose. But that
is merely speculation piled upon conjecture. Nevertheless, a very
intriguing sub-hypothesis that Croy proposes.
> Likewise, I suggested in an earlier post that the logic of Mark'sThese are not the right questions. The reason is shown by P45 (or am
> narrative demands that no resurrection-appearance story be
> narrated. Mark introduced the narrative device of an Announcer,
> which is utterly unnecessary if Jesus shows up later (the
> awkwardness of Matthew 28:9-10 is an example). So my question
> is: Just how long would these missing beginning-and-ending have
> been? Has anyone ever done research to determine the average
> number of Greek letters that would have been contained on a page of
> a codex from the early Christian centuries? If, as Croy believes,
> the outer page, front and back, has been lost, then how much text
> can we hypothesize to have been lost? ...
I confusing P45 with P66?), which is the earliest collection of
Paul's letters. That Codex is useful because it shows that the scribe
realized at some point into his copying that he had more material
than he had space, if he continued to write with the same line
spacing and character size, so the letters become smaller and smaller
in the second half of the manuscript, and the line spacing grows
tighter and tighter. A better question might be how many pages of
papyrus were needed in the earliest complete copies of Matthew, Luke
and John? Another better question would be to look at the surviving
codices from the standpoint of physical production, i.e., some
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codicology>Codicology. A fundamental
unit of the codex was a quire ("four"):
4 sheets of papyrus of the same size were piled up, and then folded
once, and then sewn at the fold. For example, see
> * Quire: A gathering of usually two or more BIFOLIA (oror
> combination of bifolia and singletons) inserted into one another
> and sewn together through the fold. One or more quires sewn
> together may comprise a CODEX.
> * A quire was originally an unfolded stack of 4 sheets ofPer the <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex>wikipedia:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vellum>vellum or
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchment>parchment, which (depending
> on the method used) would form an 8- or 16-page booklet when
> stitched and folded. Back then, the terms
> or quaternum were more commonly used.
>The first recorded use of the codex for literary works dates fromYou might also want to consult
>the late <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_century>first century
>AD, when <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial>Martial experimented
>with the format. . . .
>The earliest surviving fragments from codices come from Egypt and
>are variously dated (always tentatively) towards the end of the 1st
>century or in the first half of the 2nd. This group includes the
>Library Papyrus P52, containing part of St John's Gospel, and
>perhaps dating from between 125 and
Codex and Canon Consciousness" (Draft), by Robert A. Kraft [updated
to 15 October 2000]
But these sources don't answer your question completely. I'm sure
that others must have better information.
University of Hawaii
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Bob Schacht wrote on Jul 22, 2007 1:01 AM:
>The reason is shown by P45 (or amThat would be P46.
>I confusing P45 with P66?), which is the earliest collection of
Stephen C. Carlson,
"Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
- At 08:24 AM 7/22/2007, you wrote:
>Bob Schacht wrote on Jul 22, 2007 1:01 AM:Stephen,
> >The reason is shown by P45 (or am
> >I confusing P45 with P66?), which is the earliest collection of
> >Paul's letters.
>That would be P46.
Thanks for the correction. I'm traveling, and don't have my notes.
And a quick Google didn't rescue my mistake.
University of Hawaii
>Stephen C. Carlson,
>"Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
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