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Re: [XTalk] Jesus and angels

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  • Bob Schacht
    ... Depends on what you mean by angels. I d check the Enochian literature, and Middle Platonism in general. There was Intertestamental literature regarding
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 14, 2007
      At 01:20 PM 1/14/2007, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
      >I'm in the middle of writing a piece on Jesus and angels and it suddenly
      >struck me that I know little about the first century Jewish concept(s)
      >of the origin(s) of angels.
      >
      >I would assume that this is something alluded to or stated in the
      >Pseudepigrapha, the DSS, and/or in Rabbinic literature. But if so,
      >where?

      Depends on what you mean by "angels."
      I'd check the Enochian literature, and Middle Platonism in general.
      There was Intertestamental literature regarding Genesis 6.

      Bob


      >Help on this will be much appreciated.
      >
      >Yours,
      >
      >Jeffrey
      >
      >
      >--
      >Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
      >1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
      >Chicago, Illinois
      >e-mail jgibson000@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jeffrey B. Gibson
      ... Divine messengers like Gabriel and heavenly protectors like Michael. ... Thanks! I note that Psalm 148:2 and Nehemiah 9 speak of their creation by God. ;
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 14, 2007
        Bob Schacht wrote:

        > At 01:20 PM 1/14/2007, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
        > >I'm in the middle of writing a piece on Jesus and angels and it suddenly
        > >struck me that I know little about the first century Jewish concept(s)
        > >of the origin(s) of angels.
        > >
        > >I would assume that this is something alluded to or stated in the
        > >Pseudepigrapha, the DSS, and/or in Rabbinic literature. But if so,
        > >where?
        >
        > Depends on what you mean by "angels."

        Divine messengers like Gabriel and heavenly protectors like Michael.

        > I'd check the Enochian literature, and Middle Platonism in general.
        > There was Intertestamental literature regarding Genesis 6.

        Thanks!

        I note that Psalm 148:2 and Nehemiah 9 speak of their creation by God. ; Job
        38:1,4,7 speaks of their "pre-existence" and divine creation.

        Are these themes echoed anywhere else in canonical and non canonical second temple
        Jewish literature?

        Jeffrey
        --
        Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
        1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
        Chicago, Illinois
        e-mail jgibson000@...
      • Bob Schacht
        ... If you look in the ABD under MICHAEL (ANGEL), you will find that an elaborate angelology emerged in Judaism during the Hellenistic period. You will also
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 14, 2007
          At 02:41 PM 1/14/2007, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:


          >Bob Schacht wrote:
          >
          > > At 01:20 PM 1/14/2007, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
          > > >I'm in the middle of writing a piece on Jesus and angels and it suddenly
          > > >struck me that I know little about the first century Jewish concept(s)
          > > >of the origin(s) of angels.
          > > >
          > > >I would assume that this is something alluded to or stated in the
          > > >Pseudepigrapha, the DSS, and/or in Rabbinic literature. But if so,
          > > >where?
          > >
          > > Depends on what you mean by "angels."
          >
          >Divine messengers like Gabriel and heavenly protectors like Michael.

          If you look in the ABD under MICHAEL (ANGEL), you will find that an
          "elaborate angelology emerged in Judaism during the Hellenistic period."
          You will also find a bunch of references there to 1 Enoch, as I suspected.
          The article is by Duane Watson, and I think you will find it useful.

          Bob


          > > I'd check the Enochian literature, and Middle Platonism in general.
          > > There was Intertestamental literature regarding Genesis 6.
          >
          >Thanks!
          >
          >I note that Psalm 148:2 and Nehemiah 9 speak of their creation by God. ; Job
          >38:1,4,7 speaks of their "pre-existence" and divine creation.
          >
          >Are these themes echoed anywhere else in canonical and non canonical
          >second temple
          >Jewish literature?
          >
          >Jeffrey
          >--
          >Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
          >1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
          >Chicago, Illinois
          >e-mail jgibson000@...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >The XTalk Home Page is http://ntgateway.com/xtalk/
          >
          >To subscribe to Xtalk, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >List managers may be contacted directly at: crosstalk2-owners@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Avbcl111@aol.com
          Jeffrey, Here is one... And the angel of the presence spoke to Moses by the word of the Lord, saying, Write the whole account of creation, that in six days
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 14, 2007
            Jeffrey,

            Here is one...

            "And the angel of the presence spoke to Moses by the word of the Lord,
            saying, "Write the whole account of creation, that in six days the Lord God
            completed all his work and all he created. And he observed a sabbath the seventh
            day, and he sanctified it for all ages. And he set it (as) a sign for all his
            works. For on the first day he created the heavens, which are above, and the
            earth, and the waters and all of the spirits which minister before him:

            the angels of presence,
            the angels of santification,
            and the angels of spirit of fire,
            and the angels of the spirit of the winds,
            and the angels of the spirit of the clouds and darkness and snow and hail
            and frost,
            and the angels of resoundings and thunder and lightning,
            and the angels of the spirits of cold and heat and winter and springtime and
            harvest and summer,
            and all of the spirits of his creatures which are in heaven and on earth."
            (Jubilees 2:1-2)

            Hope that helps. That's all I can remember from my Dead Sea Scrolls course,
            but I can try to look for some more if you want.



            God bless,
            Apolonio Latar
            Rutgers Student



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • dagoi@aol.com
            Try 1 Enoch Bill In a message dated 1/14/7 11:33:58 PM, Jeffrey wrote:
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 14, 2007
              Try 1 Enoch

              Bill

              In a message dated 1/14/7 11:33:58 PM, Jeffrey wrote:

              <<I'm in the middle of writing a piece on Jesus and angels and it suddenly
              struck me that I know little about the first century Jewish concept(s)
              of the origin(s) of angels.

              I would assume that this is something alluded to or stated in the
              Pseudepigrapha, the DSS, and/or in Rabbinic literature. But if so,
              where?

              Help on this will be much appreciated.

              Yours,

              Jeffrey>>
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