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Re: [XTalk] Bruce Metzger is selling his library

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  • Jack Kilmon
    ... From: Jim West To: ; Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 2:59 PM
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 30, 2006
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Jim West" <jwest@...>
      To: <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>; <crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 2:59 PM
      Subject: [XTalk] Bruce Metzger is selling his library


      > Listers may find this quite amazing:
      >
      > http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?vci=3250796&vcat=462465&vcatn=The+Bruce+M.+Metzger+Collection&sortby=1
      >
      > Jim
      >
      >
      > --
      > Jim West, ThD


      My purchase of Prof. Metzger's Friedrich Schulthess' Grammatik des
      Christlich-Palastinischen Aramaisch 1924 edition Tubingen came today and I
      am like a kid in a candy shop. It is signed on the front flyleaf by Bruce
      Metzger in 1948 and some of his notes in the bibliography. It is hard to
      believe he is 92. This will be invaluable to me, Jim. I am glad you gave
      the heads up because I am sure these books will go fast.

      Jack

      Jack Kilmon
      San Antonio, Texas
    • Ernest Pennells
      I have just encountered a good case for being a literalist.  Wendy Cotter “The Parable of the Feisty Widow and the Threatened Judge”,  NTS July 2005, 
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 3, 2006
        I have just encountered a good case for being a literalist.  Wendy Cotter “The Parable of the Feisty Widow and the Threatened Judge”,  NTS July 2005,  238ff argues that the judge gives in to the feisty widow because she might give him a black eye.

        Isn’t that fun?

        I would like to know how the linguists on XTalk view Cotter’s literal rendering of Lk. 18.5

        Regards,

        Ernie Pennells,
        220-50 Songhees Road,
        Victoria BC, 
        Canada V9A 7J4

        Tel: (1) 250 - 381 5676
         


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • sdavies0
        Can you summarize the argument more fully? Steve Davies ... Cotter “The Parable of the Feisty Widow and the Threatened Judge”,  NTS July 2005,  238ff
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 4, 2006
          Can you summarize the argument more fully?
          Steve Davies

          >
          > I have just encountered a good case for being a literalist.  Wendy
          Cotter “The Parable of the Feisty Widow and the Threatened
          Judge”,  NTS July 2005,  238ff argues that the judge gives in to
          the feisty widow because she might give him a black eye.
          >
          > Isn’t that fun?
          >
          > I would like to know how the linguists on XTalk view Cotter’s
          literal rendering of Lk. 18.5
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Ernie Pennells,
          > 220-50 Songhees Road,
          > Victoria BC, 
          > Canada V9A 7J4
          >
          > Tel: (1) 250 - 381 5676
          >  
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Ernest Pennells
          ... I guess I was being rather cryptic, Steve. The key word in Lk. 18.5 is ‘UPWPIAZW (strike under the eye), which translators have rendered metaphorically
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 4, 2006
            [Steve Davies]:
            >Can you summarize the argument more fully?

            I guess I was being rather cryptic, Steve.

            The key word in Lk. 18.5 is ‘UPWPIAZW (strike under the eye), which
            translators have rendered metaphorically as the unjust judge being pestered
            by the widow. Wendy Cotter takes this more literally as the judge feeling
            concerned that this determined and feisty woman might actually give him a
            black eye.

            Eugene Peterson in “The Message” comes close to Cotter’s theme with, “I’m
            going to end up beaten black-and-blue by her pounding.”

            Kenneth Bailey “Poets & Peasants” also comes close to Wendy Cotter’s theme.
            Based upon his knowledge peasant communities in the Middle East, he
            describes the potential for a bold woman to brave the male assembly before a
            judge, and win an effective hearing through disruptive behaviour.

            My enquiry is therefore whether the customary metaphorical treatments have a
            stronger claim than Cotter’s fisticuffs.

            Regards,

            Ernie Pennells,
            220-50 Songhees Road,
            Victoria BC,
            Canada V9A 7J4

            Tel: (1) 250 - 381 5676



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • sdavies0
            ... pestered by the widow. Wendy Cotter takes this more literally as the judge feeling concerned that this determined and feisty woman might actually give
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 5, 2006
              --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, "Ernest Pennells" <pennells@...>
              wrote:

              > The key word in Lk. 18.5 is `UPWPIAZW (strike under the eye), which
              > translators have rendered metaphorically as the unjust judge being
              pestered > by the widow. Wendy Cotter takes this more literally as
              the judge feeling > concerned that this determined and feisty woman
              might actually give him a > black eye.

              >> My enquiry is therefore whether the customary metaphorical
              treatments have a > stronger claim than Cotter's fisticuffs.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Ernie Pennells,

              Well, I dunno. How's that for help? It would seem to me that the
              parable could not originally have had an unjust judge allegorical for
              God. That doesn't seem likely to me in terms of the religious context
              of the times.

              Furthermore, the purpose of a judge is to hear a case, not to give in
              to pressure. This judge doesn't hear the case at all, but gives in.
              That fits his unrigheous character well, but doesn't make it likely
              that he is to be considered God. The woman is taking advantage of his
              unrighteousness by her strategy.

              For all we know the whining bitch doesn't have a case at all. I think
              of a particular instance at my college where public screaming
              (literally)and threatening-lawsuits repeatedly won the day for a
              woman who had not the slightest scrap of right on her side.

              As the judge is God, the woman, in turn, is said to be an allegory
              for God's chosen ones. Now, if they are already the chosen ones, they
              will already unjustly have God working for them against enemies who
              have just and righteous claims against them, as the OT oft
              reports to be the icase. I don't see any reason for anyone advancing
              the argument that God's chosen will get their way, rightly or
              wrongly, by physically threatening to assault God, although that is
              the case if the Bible's allegory is to be followed and we assume that
              strike under the eye is (more or less)literally meant.

              We are to keep whining to God and eventually, whether we are in the
              right or not, he'll give in just to get us to leave him alone....
              that's the relationship of God to His Chosen? I suspect that the
              original parable (is this a parable, I can't tell anymore) did not
              allegorize God/Judge at all. That makes no sense to me, nor does
              Chosen-People/Woman.

              But what do you suppose it might have been about, if the allegory in
              the Word is secondary and not the intent of the original?

              I know, this letter doesn't help you with your question, but...
              well... there we are.

              Steve Davies
            • Tony Buglass
              Steve Davies wrote: It would seem to me that the parable could not originally have had an unjust judge allegorical for God. [snipped] I suspect that the
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
                Steve Davies wrote:
                It would seem to me that the
                parable could not originally have had an unjust judge allegorical for
                God. [snipped] I suspect that the
                original parable (is this a parable, I can't tell anymore) did not
                allegorize God/Judge at all. That makes no sense to me, nor does
                Chosen-People/Woman.
                But what do you suppose it might have been about, if the allegory in
                the Word is secondary and not the intent of the original?

                Allegory is usually seen as secondary, isn't it? Which doesn't mean that in some original version of the story the judge is not used to refer to God in some other metaphorical device. (Bit vague, I know, but it *is* Monday morning...)

                For my money, the application is 18:7, not 18:8; it's a "how much more" type of story (cf Lk.11:13) - ie if such a dodgy character as this judge will eventualy do as he is asked, how much more will your loving heavenly Father answer your prayers. Whether the original saying was part of the story as Luke shapes it, to deal with his church's concerns over parousia-delay, is another question. But the image of a feisty widow losing it with a bad judge and smacking him in the eye - sounds like exactly the kind of cartoon-image Jesus would have used to get the crowd going. In a different age and culture, he might have used Tom and Jerry cartoons...

                Cheers,
                Rev Tony Buglass
                Superintendent Minister
                Upper Calder Methodist Circuit



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ernest Pennells
                [Tony Buglass] ... cartoons... I like it, Tony [Tony Buglass] ... Then what have translators been feeding us all these years? I want my Tom and Jerry!
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
                  [Tony Buglass]
                  >In a different age and culture, he might have used Tom and Jerry
                  cartoons...

                  I like it, Tony

                  [Tony Buglass]
                  >Allegory is usually seen as secondary, isn't it?

                  Then what have translators been feeding us all these years? I want my Tom
                  and Jerry!

                  Regards,

                  Ernie Pennells,
                  220-50 Songhees Road,
                  Victoria BC,
                  Canada V9A 7J4

                  Tel: (1) 250 - 381 5676



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Gordon Raynal
                  Hi Tony, Steve and Ernie, ... I love the Tom and Jerry connection! Right on target. Road Runner and Wylie Coyote work, too:)! Jesus compared the Kingdom to
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
                    Hi Tony, Steve and Ernie,
                    On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:40 AM, Tony Buglass wrote:

                    > Steve Davies wrote:
                    > It would seem to me that the
                    > parable could not originally have had an unjust judge allegorical for
                    > God. [snipped] I suspect that the
                    > original parable (is this a parable, I can't tell anymore) did not
                    > allegorize God/Judge at all. That makes no sense to me, nor does
                    > Chosen-People/Woman.
                    > But what do you suppose it might have been about, if the allegory in
                    > the Word is secondary and not the intent of the original?
                    >
                    > Allegory is usually seen as secondary, isn't it? Which doesn't
                    > mean that in some original version of the story the judge is not
                    > used to refer to God in some other metaphorical device. (Bit
                    > vague, I know, but it *is* Monday morning...)
                    >
                    > For my money, the application is 18:7, not 18:8; it's a "how much
                    > more" type of story (cf Lk.11:13) - ie if such a dodgy character as
                    > this judge will eventualy do as he is asked, how much more will
                    > your loving heavenly Father answer your prayers. Whether the
                    > original saying was part of the story as Luke shapes it, to deal
                    > with his church's concerns over parousia-delay, is another
                    > question. But the image of a feisty widow losing it with a bad
                    > judge and smacking him in the eye - sounds like exactly the kind of
                    > cartoon-image Jesus would have used to get the crowd going. In a
                    > different age and culture, he might have used Tom and Jerry
                    > cartoons...
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Rev Tony Buglass
                    > Superintendent Minister
                    > Upper Calder Methodist Circuit
                    >
                    >
                    I love the Tom and Jerry connection! Right on target. Road Runner
                    and Wylie Coyote work, too:)! Jesus compared the Kingdom to the
                    ravenous mustard weed that grows so huge that it invited birds
                    (crows?) to the cornfield... to an Assassin who needed his practice,
                    etc. All very Tom and Jerry-like/ Road Runner and Wylie Coyote-like
                    stories. In his fine little book, "The Essential Jesus" Crossan
                    writes (p 170) "Hear it instead (that is not in the way Luke frames
                    it) in its own literal situation where, in a world of male dominance,
                    widows (and orphans) are peculiarly susceptible to injustice and
                    oppression. Such a focus surely connects us to all the prophetic
                    concerns about the lowliest of the low and the weakest and forward to
                    brother James statement: "Religion that is pure and undefiled before
                    God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their
                    distress, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." (Jas. 1:27
                    NRSV) Strategies for the latter might take a good smack now and again!

                    Gordon Raynal
                    Inman, SC
                  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
                    ... FWIW, Wendy Cotter, the author of the article now under discussion, is a friend of mine (and who incidentally, also happens to live half a mile from me).
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
                      Gordon Raynal wrote:

                      > I love the Tom and Jerry connection! Right on target. Road Runner
                      > and Wylie Coyote work, too:)! Jesus compared the Kingdom to the
                      > ravenous mustard weed that grows so huge that it invited birds
                      > (crows?) to the cornfield... to an Assassin who needed his practice,
                      > etc. All very Tom and Jerry-like/ Road Runner and Wylie Coyote-like
                      > stories. In his fine little book, "The Essential Jesus" Crossan
                      > writes (p 170) "Hear it instead (that is not in the way Luke frames
                      > it) in its own literal situation where, in a world of male dominance,
                      > widows (and orphans) are peculiarly susceptible to injustice and
                      > oppression. Such a focus surely connects us to all the prophetic
                      > concerns about the lowliest of the low and the weakest and forward to
                      > brother James statement: "Religion that is pure and undefiled before
                      > God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their
                      > distress, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." (Jas. 1:27
                      > NRSV) Strategies for the latter might take a good smack now and again!

                      FWIW, Wendy Cotter, the author of the article now under discussion, is a friend of
                      mine (and who incidentally, also happens to live half a mile from me). I'll ask
                      her if she wants to come on board and join this discussion.

                      Jeffrey

                      P.S. I'm still waiting for responses from XTalkers about attendance at SBL.

                      --
                      Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
                      1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
                      Chicago, Illinois
                      e-mail jgibson000@...
                    • Gordon Raynal
                      Hi Jeffrey, Will be interested in her comments. See you in a couple of weeks. Gordon Raynal Inman, SC
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 7, 2006
                        Hi Jeffrey,
                        Will be interested in her comments.
                        See you in a couple of weeks.
                        Gordon Raynal
                        Inman, SC
                        On Nov 6, 2006, at 7:20 PM, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Gordon Raynal wrote:
                        >
                        >> I love the Tom and Jerry connection! Right on target.
                        >> Road Runner
                        >> and Wylie Coyote work, too:)! Jesus compared the Kingdom to the
                        >> ravenous mustard weed that grows so huge that it invited birds
                        >> (crows?) to the cornfield... to an Assassin who needed his practice,
                        >> etc. All very Tom and Jerry-like/ Road Runner and Wylie Coyote-like
                        >> stories. In his fine little book, "The Essential Jesus" Crossan
                        >> writes (p 170) "Hear it instead (that is not in the way Luke frames
                        >> it) in its own literal situation where, in a world of male dominance,
                        >> widows (and orphans) are peculiarly susceptible to injustice and
                        >> oppression. Such a focus surely connects us to all the prophetic
                        >> concerns about the lowliest of the low and the weakest and forward to
                        >> brother James statement: "Religion that is pure and undefiled before
                        >> God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their
                        >> distress, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." (Jas. 1:27
                        >> NRSV) Strategies for the latter might take a good smack now and
                        >> again!
                        >
                        > FWIW, Wendy Cotter, the author of the article now under discussion,
                        > is a friend of
                        > mine (and who incidentally, also happens to live half a mile from
                        > me). I'll ask
                        > her if she wants to come on board and join this discussion.
                        >
                        > Jeffrey
                        >
                        > P.S. I'm still waiting for responses from XTalkers about
                        > attendance at SBL.
                        >
                        > --
                        > Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
                        > 1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
                        > Chicago, Illinois
                        > e-mail jgibson000@...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The XTalk Home Page is http://ntgateway.com/xtalk/
                        >
                        > To subscribe to Xtalk, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-
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                      • Peter Kirby
                        Hello XTalkers, You may have heard of the Open Scrolls Project before, and you would know, then, that it hasn t done much to get off the ground. I believe
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 1 1:50 AM
                          Hello XTalkers,

                          You may have heard of "the Open Scrolls Project" before, and you would
                          know, then, that it hasn't done much to get off the ground. I believe
                          that this is because the model of volunteer contributions of translation
                          time is not the most efficient, because it puts an extraordinary burden
                          on a few individuals (those who are able to translate Aramaic, Greek,
                          and Hebrew) without due compensation.

                          I believe that a better model would be to establish a fund out of which
                          the qualified translators can be paid for the service they render.
                          Then, people would be able to contribute their money to this fund, with
                          the expectation that even a little bit of money will result in some of
                          the Dead Sea Scrolls being translated and transcribed--and available for
                          free--that were not before.

                          I would hope that individuals interested in the result would be
                          contributors, but also corporations that sell Bible software packages
                          that do not currently include the Dead Sea Scrolls, since they would be
                          reaping the financial rewards of the result. I would definitely contact
                          them for their sponsorship, in addition to the public.

                          If you go to the website,

                          http://www.openscrolls.org/

                          You will see that I am currently looking for a few things to get off the
                          ground:

                          First, I need two other people to serve on the Board of Directors for
                          Open Scrolls, Inc. I would prefer people who have academic credentials
                          (to compensate for my lack of such), but also an enthusiasm for the
                          project. The Board of Directors may or may not be paid for their time,
                          but would at least be able to recoup any expenses incurred.

                          Second, I need one to three people to serve as an editorial review for
                          the work of translation. They would be responsible for quality
                          control. They would be paid along with the translators. (Someone may
                          serve on both the BoD and the editoral review, especially if they'd like
                          to be paid. I myself won't be on the editorial review board.) The size
                          of the editorial review board is a function of each person's available
                          time; if we get one person with a lot of time, we may not need the other
                          two.

                          Third, I need contacts for people wanting to be paid for the work of
                          transcription and translation working off the photocopies in the
                          "Discoveries in the Judean Desert" series (DJD). I could potentially
                          use up to a dozen such people, subdividing out the actual work of
                          translation and transcription.

                          Fourth, I could use the help of a web developer or web designer for the
                          initial OpenScrolls.org website. This is not crucial; OpenScrolls.org
                          will be a homebase for the distribution of the texts, but other channels
                          will distribute the texts also. In a pinch I can do this work.

                          Fifth, I need the comments of people like you on CrossTalk! What needs
                          to be done so that this venture succeeds? You might know something I
                          don't, so, enlighten me!

                          In particular...

                          What's the best license for the resulting transcription and
                          translation? The main decision here is, should the result be fully
                          public domain, or should the result by licensed under a "Creative
                          Commons" or other open-type license? Please weigh in if you are
                          familiar with the advantages and disadvantages. The main advantage (to
                          me) of the latter, a license of some kind, is that you can control
                          versioning (a modification has to be marked as a modification, etc.) and
                          attribution (OpenScrolls.org and its translators must be credited).

                          What's the best way to solicit contributions? Maybe you know something
                          I don't about the world of getting funding for research or educational
                          projects, such as this one basically is.

                          thanks,
                          Peter Kirby

                          PS-- The Open Scrolls website is already ranking #14 or so for the term
                          "Dead Sea Scrolls" in Google. I am certain that it will make it to the
                          first page of the search results as soon as some serious content can be
                          found there. It is, therefore, a very good spot to position the
                          transcription and translation effort described above.
                        • Lisbeth S. Fried
                          Hi Peter, Do I get paid for the work I already did???? Who uses the site? There are plenty of translations of the DSS around. Liz Fried _____ From:
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 1 7:59 AM
                            Hi Peter,

                            Do I get paid for the work I already did????



                            Who uses the site? There are plenty of translations of the DSS around.

                            Liz Fried



                            _____

                            From: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kirby
                            Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:50 AM
                            To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [XTalk] Dead Sea Scrolls online? the Open Scrolls project



                            Hello XTalkers,

                            You may have heard of "the Open Scrolls Project" before, and you would
                            know, then, that it hasn't done much to get off the ground. I believe
                            that this is because the model of volunteer contributions of translation
                            time is not the most efficient, because it puts an extraordinary burden
                            on a few individuals (those who are able to translate Aramaic, Greek,
                            and Hebrew) without due compensation.

                            I believe that a better model would be to establish a fund out of which
                            the qualified translators can be paid for the service they render.
                            Then, people would be able to contribute their money to this fund, with
                            the expectation that even a little bit of money will result in some of
                            the Dead Sea Scrolls being translated and transcribed--and available for
                            free--that were not before.

                            I would hope that individuals interested in the result would be
                            contributors, but also corporations that sell Bible software packages
                            that do not currently include the Dead Sea Scrolls, since they would be
                            reaping the financial rewards of the result. I would definitely contact
                            them for their sponsorship, in addition to the public.

                            If you go to the website,

                            http://www.openscro <http://www.openscrolls.org/> lls.org/

                            You will see that I am currently looking for a few things to get off the
                            ground:

                            First, I need two other people to serve on the Board of Directors for
                            Open Scrolls, Inc. I would prefer people who have academic credentials
                            (to compensate for my lack of such), but also an enthusiasm for the
                            project. The Board of Directors may or may not be paid for their time,
                            but would at least be able to recoup any expenses incurred.

                            Second, I need one to three people to serve as an editorial review for
                            the work of translation. They would be responsible for quality
                            control. They would be paid along with the translators. (Someone may
                            serve on both the BoD and the editoral review, especially if they'd like
                            to be paid. I myself won't be on the editorial review board.) The size
                            of the editorial review board is a function of each person's available
                            time; if we get one person with a lot of time, we may not need the other
                            two.

                            Third, I need contacts for people wanting to be paid for the work of
                            transcription and translation working off the photocopies in the
                            "Discoveries in the Judean Desert" series (DJD). I could potentially
                            use up to a dozen such people, subdividing out the actual work of
                            translation and transcription.

                            Fourth, I could use the help of a web developer or web designer for the
                            initial OpenScrolls.org website. This is not crucial; OpenScrolls.org
                            will be a homebase for the distribution of the texts, but other channels
                            will distribute the texts also. In a pinch I can do this work.

                            Fifth, I need the comments of people like you on CrossTalk! What needs
                            to be done so that this venture succeeds? You might know something I
                            don't, so, enlighten me!

                            In particular...

                            What's the best license for the resulting transcription and
                            translation? The main decision here is, should the result be fully
                            public domain, or should the result by licensed under a "Creative
                            Commons" or other open-type license? Please weigh in if you are
                            familiar with the advantages and disadvantages. The main advantage (to
                            me) of the latter, a license of some kind, is that you can control
                            versioning (a modification has to be marked as a modification, etc.) and
                            attribution (OpenScrolls.org and its translators must be credited).

                            What's the best way to solicit contributions? Maybe you know something
                            I don't about the world of getting funding for research or educational
                            projects, such as this one basically is.

                            thanks,
                            Peter Kirby

                            PS-- The Open Scrolls website is already ranking #14 or so for the term
                            "Dead Sea Scrolls" in Google. I am certain that it will make it to the
                            first page of the search results as soon as some serious content can be
                            found there. It is, therefore, a very good spot to position the
                            transcription and translation effort described above.





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Peter Kirby
                            ... I don t see why not, if you are willing to become one of the translators / transcribers when the Open Scrolls project officially launches. Just resubmit
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 1 11:30 AM
                              Lisbeth S. Fried wrote:
                              > Hi Peter,
                              >
                              > Do I get paid for the work I already did????
                              >
                              I don't see why not, if you are willing to become one of the translators
                              / transcribers when the Open Scrolls project officially launches. Just
                              resubmit the translation work you had done at that time.
                              > Who uses the site? There are plenty of translations of the DSS around.
                              >
                              > Liz Fried
                              The Accordance software's translation, transcription, and index costs $120.

                              The Logos software's transcription costs $80.

                              The hardcopy books edited by Florentino García Martínez cost about $100
                              and cannot be searched.

                              There are other costs associated with getting Accordance or Logos up and
                              running, usually some several hundred dollars. Many people do not have
                              several hundred dollars to spend on getting the Dead Sea Scrolls
                              searchable and available in the original language.

                              The advantages of the Open Scrolls project are that the result would:

                              * Be free.
                              * Include a transcription (critical text).
                              * Include a translation (not even this is on the Internet at present).
                              * Searchable at OpenScrolls.org or at any other site choosing to host it.
                              * Integrated with popular free and low-cost Bible software packages (the
                              free "Sword" softwares, and the various ones you see on the shelf for
                              $50 or less)

                              I think that this more than justifies the project.

                              regards,
                              Peter Kirby
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