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Re: [XTalk] Re: The census of Quirinius: Carlson's rendering of Lk. 2.2

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  • Stephen C. Carlson
    ... Thanks for your comments, David. I ended up backing off of such a ... Stephen Carlson -- Stephen C. Carlson
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 3, 2006
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      At 04:43 PM 9/3/2006 +0000, David C. Hindley wrote:
      >However, I am not sure that making Joseph respond to a supposed
      >original decree of Augustus issued around 8 BCE (as distinct from the
      >most famous one that took place in Judea in 6 CE) really solves the
      >problem.

      Thanks for your comments, David. I ended up backing off of such a
      claim in my third post in the series, as follows:

      |What other historical implications can be made from this understanding of
      |Luke 2:1-7? Unfortunately, it tells us very little about what happened at
      |the turn of the era other than that the author believed that some census was
      |conducted in the Roman sphere of influence that required Joseph to travel
      |from Galilee to Bethlehem. It is unclear, however, whether the author's
      |knowledge or sources were any more specific than that.

      Stephen Carlson
      --
      Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
      Weblog: http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/
      Author of: The Gospel Hoax, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1932792481
    • RSBrenchley@aol.com
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 12, 2006
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        <<<<In 1912, however, the discovery by W. M. Ramsey of a fragmentary
        inscription at Antioch of Pisidia arguably established Quirinius was
        in Syria on a previous occasion. (1) His role was more military to
        lead a campaign against the Homanadenses, a tribe in the Taurus
        Mountains. This is confirmed by Tacitus. This means that Quirinius
        would have established a seat of government in Syria, including
        Palestine, from the years 10 to 7 BCE. In this position he would have
        been responsible for the census mentioned by Luke. This census of 7
        BCE would therefore have been the "first" census taken when Cyrenius
        was governor (Luke 2:2) and the historically documented census of 6/7
        CE was really the second. There is further evidence of this first
        census of 7 BCE in the writings of Tertullian who records the
        census "taken in Judea by Sentius Saturninus." (2) C. Sentius
        Saturninus was Legate of Syria from 9 to 6 BCE. Another inscription,
        the Lapis Tiburtinus, was found in 1764 near Tivoli (Tibur). Composed
        after 14 CE, the inscription names an unknown personage who was
        legate of Syria twice. The man is described as having been victorious
        in war. There is considerable dissension among scholars as to whether
        the unnamed person is Quirinius. I think it is more likely that it
        does indeed refer to the famous consul and soldier.>>

        I am not so sure I want to postulate a hypothetical "first"
        governorship of Syria by Quirinius when there is a very real L.
        Calpurnius Piso who better fits the wording of the inscription in
        question (ILS 918).>>


        I'm sure that you're right about Piso, and the inscription is of course
        partial, with the name missing. I'm no Latin expert, and perhaps someone can
        confirm this, but I believe that '...legatus pr pr divi Augusti iterum Syriam et
        Phoenicen optinuit' actually refers to his 'serving again as a legate of the
        divine Augustus', ie he had served as a legate elsewhere in the past. I'm not
        sure whether or not this would fit Piso.

        There is a further problem in that the campaign against the Homonadenses
        was carried out by P Quintillius (or Quinctillius) Varus, who was governor
        immediately after Herod the Great's death, and was responsible for suppressing
        a Jewish uprising at that time. Luke's 'Quirinius', on the other hand,
        appears to be P Sulpicius Quirinius, the legate who is recorded by Josephus as
        having carried out a census at the time of the establishment of the Province of
        Judea, after the exile of Archelaus in 6 AD.

        With apologies for the late reply.

        Regards,

        Robert Brenchley



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