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Re: [XTalk] Jesus the Homeowner?

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  • Jim West
    ... Its unicode. If you have a mailer that reads unicode it should appear quite nicely. If you don t, Mozilla Thunderbird does it brilliantly. ... Best Jim
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 2, 2006
      Bob Schacht wrote:
      > At 09:43 AM 3/2/2006, Jim West wrote:
      >
      >>Mark Goodacre has some interesting things to say about this question in
      >>a fine, brief exegesis of Mark 2:15 on his blog today (which you should
      >>read- by the way)- The text reads
      >>
      >>και γινεται κατακεισθαι αυτον εν τη
      >>οικια αυτου και πολλοι τελωναι και
      >>αμαρτωλοι συνανεκειντο τω ιησου και
      >>τοις μαθηταις αυτου ησαν γαρ πολλοι
      >>και ηκολουθουν αυτω
      >

      Its unicode. If you have a mailer that reads unicode it should appear
      quite nicely. If you don't, Mozilla Thunderbird does it brilliantly.

      >
      > Um, not all of us have Greek fonts installed on all of our computers. Can
      > we get this and the texts below in transliteration?
      > Bob

      Best

      Jim


      --
      Jim West

      http://web.infoave.net/~jwest -- Biblical Studies Resources
    • Mark Goodacre
      Jim, ... It s a good question; I suspect that the Matt. 8.20 // Luke 9.58 logion is one of the reasons that we do not ask questions about where Jesus lived,
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 2, 2006
        Jim,

        Thanks for drawing attention to that. One brief comment:

        > What Mark doesn't address, though, is the important text in both Matthew
        > (8:20) and Luke (9:58) which read
        >
        > και λεγει αυτω ο ιησους αι αλωπεκες φωλεους εχουσιν και τα πετεινα του
        > ουρανου κατασκηνωσεις ο δε υιος του ανθρωπου ουκ εχει που την κεφαλην κλινη.
        >
        > To be sure, the last thing we want to do is harmonize. Mark knows
        > nothing of a saying of this kind. So why do Matthew and Luke make use of
        > it? And if they knew Mark, and used Mark, why did they ignore or bypass it?

        It's a good question; I suspect that the Matt. 8.20 // Luke 9.58
        logion is one of the reasons that we do not ask questions about where
        Jesus lived, and whether he had a house, especially given its context
        in Matthew, relatively early in the Gospel, in 8.20, before the
        reference to "the house" in Matt. 9.10. In other words we are seduced
        by the way that Matthew (and Luke for that matter) frame the issue.

        But let us say, for the sake of argument, that Jesus said something
        like the logion in Matt. 8.20 // Luke 9.58. (a) It could reflect a
        later, itinerant stage of his mission. (b) He might be saying
        something about the contrast between the habitual behaviour of the
        animals in contrast to the way that human beings behave. Either way,
        that saying does not negate the idea that Jesus' house in Capernaum is
        mentioned in Mark 2.

        With best wishes
        Mark
        --
        Mark Goodacre Goodacre@...
        Associate Professor
        Duke University
        Department of Religion
        314 Gray Bldg./Box 90964
        Durham, NC 27708-0964 USA
        Phone: 919-660-3503 Fax: 919-660-3530

        http://NTGateway.com/goodacre
      • Karel Hanhart
        Mark, Re. Mark 1,29, 2,15. Isn t it true that Mark likely told his story of Jesus from the perspective of his own ecclesia around (70 or) 72? As I see it he
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 3, 2006
          Mark,

          Re. Mark 1,29, 2,15. Isn't it true that Mark likely told his story of Jesus
          from the perspective of his own ecclesia around (70 or) 72? As I see it he
          wants to explain and anchor the existence of their own
          ecclesia-next-to-the-synagogue in their city (Rome? Alexandria?) in a
          perceived original context of Jesus' ministry. In 1,29 the 'house' appears
          to be located almost next door to the synagogue. This need not have been the
          case in ecclesia's in the diaspora, but ideologically they were akin all
          the same. In short, shouldn't we translate oikia in 1,29 and 2,15 against
          its Hebrew/Aramaic background as 'house of learning' - bet ha-midrash?
          Jesus had apparently been confronted in 1,23 by what Mark calls an un-kosher
          spirit, upsetting the community in Capernaum. Aside from the question what
          that exorcism was all about, it resulted in the fame of Jesus and his
          'didache kaine' spreading quickly (1,27). The immediate result was the
          formation of the 'house of Simon, Andrew, James and John' in Capernaum near
          the 'sea'. Their house it seems to me was perceived as the nucleus of all
          later ecclesia's in Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Ephesus, Corinth etc. They
          were situated somewhat like a Methodist meeting hall next to the Anglican.
          Church. Isn't the same translation in order for 2,15? The 'house of
          learning' of Levi of the mysterious 'Halphaios'?

          cordially,

          Karel


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Mark Goodacre" <Goodacre@...>
          To: <crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: <biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:04 PM
          Subject: Re: [XTalk] Jesus the Homeowner?


          > Jim,
          >
          > Thanks for drawing attention to that. One brief comment:
          >
          >> What Mark doesn't address, though, is the important text in both Matthew
          >> (8:20) and Luke (9:58) which read
          >>
          >> και λεγει αυτω ο ιησους αι αλωπεκες φωλεους εχουσιν και τα πετεινα του
          >> ουρανου κατασκηνωσεις ο δε υιος του ανθρωπου ουκ εχει που την κεφαλην
          >> κλινη.
          >>
          >> To be sure, the last thing we want to do is harmonize. Mark knows
          >> nothing of a saying of this kind. So why do Matthew and Luke make use of
          >> it? And if they knew Mark, and used Mark, why did they ignore or bypass
          >> it?
          >
          > It's a good question; I suspect that the Matt. 8.20 // Luke 9.58
          > logion is one of the reasons that we do not ask questions about where
          > Jesus lived, and whether he had a house, especially given its context
          > in Matthew, relatively early in the Gospel, in 8.20, before the
          > reference to "the house" in Matt. 9.10. In other words we are seduced
          > by the way that Matthew (and Luke for that matter) frame the issue.
          >
          > But let us say, for the sake of argument, that Jesus said something
          > like the logion in Matt. 8.20 // Luke 9.58. (a) It could reflect a
          > later, itinerant stage of his mission. (b) He might be saying
          > something about the contrast between the habitual behaviour of the
          > animals in contrast to the way that human beings behave. Either way,
          > that saying does not negate the idea that Jesus' house in Capernaum is
          > mentioned in Mark 2.
          >
          > With best wishes
          > Mark
          > --
          > Mark Goodacre Goodacre@...
          > Associate Professor
          > Duke University
          > Department of Religion
          > 314 Gray Bldg./Box 90964
          > Durham, NC 27708-0964 USA
          > Phone: 919-660-3503 Fax: 919-660-3530
          >
          > http://NTGateway.com/goodacre
          >
          >
          >
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