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Re: [XTalk] The Empty Tomb: Jesus Beyond the Grave

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  • Lee Edgar Tyler
    ... snipped for brevity I recently re-read Price s article Christ a Fiction at Infidels.org
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 15, 2005
      Loren Rosson wrote:

      >List --
      >
      >I recently finished reading The Empty Tomb: Jesus
      >Beyond the Grave, a collection of essays from the
      >skeptic's corner: much to agree with, much to dispute,
      >as each contributor deals with the resurrection
      >inquiry in some way. XTalker Peter Kirby has an essay
      >refuting the authenticity of the empty tomb; Richard
      >Carrier has a lengthy essay, also arguing that the
      >empty tomb was a legend coming later than Paul's
      >two-body doctrine of the resurrection, and then a
      >shorter article arguing that if the empty tomb were
      >authentic it is plausible to assume Jesus' body was
      >stolen. Keith Parsons writes about the plausibility of
      >hallucination theories; Jeffrey Jay Lowder argues for
      >the relocation of Jesus' corpse to a second tomb. Then
      >there is an extremely polemical (and somewhat
      >off-putting) piece by editor Robert Price -- called
      >"By This Time He Stinketh: The Attempts of William
      >Lane Craig to Exhume Jesus" -- bemoaning the influence
      >of neo-conservative scholarship, insisting that
      >William Lane Craig is a menace both to scholarship and
      >the commonweal.
      >
      >
      snipped for brevity

      I recently re-read Price's article "Christ a Fiction" at "Infidels.org"

      http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/robert_price/fiction.html

      It is, I must say, a pretty sorry excuse for argumentation. And I am
      predisposed toward his conclusions, at least most of them. When a
      person purporting to support objective scholarship indulges in such
      polemics, he does more harm than good to all sides of the debate. I
      could go on, but I think the essay (which begins with a comparison of
      the Christ of evangelical Christians to the comic book character
      Superboy) speaks for itself. Or not.

      Ed Tyler
    • Mike Grondin
      ... Yes, but this statement is quite different from the one to which ... YOUR statement is an argument for the empty tomb. The K&T statement is an argument for
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 15, 2005
        --- Loren Rosson wrote:

        > Objection (13) isn't taken seriously enough by Parsons. Visions
        > without the empty tomb do not account for a resurrection belief...

        Yes, but this statement is quite different from the one to which
        Parsons was responding, as you quote:

        > (13) K&T: "A hallucination would explain only the appearances;
        > it would not explain the empty tomb; only the resurrection
        > explains all of these."

        YOUR statement is an argument for the empty tomb. The K&T statement is
        an argument for the resurrection. The reason you give for saying that
        Parsons didn't take (13) seriously enough is thus in the nature of a
        non sequitur.

        Mike Grondin
        Mt. Clemens, MI
      • Loren Rosson
        [Loren] ... [Mike] ... Yes, you re right; I mistook the direction of K&T s objection. Thanks. Loren Rosson III Nashua NH rossoiii@yahoo.com
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 16, 2005
          [Loren]
          > > Objection (13) isn't taken seriously enough by
          > Parsons. Visions
          > > without the empty tomb do not account for a
          > resurrection belief...

          [Mike]
          > Yes, but this statement is quite different from the
          > one to which
          > Parsons was responding, as you quote:
          >
          > > (13) K&T: "A hallucination would explain only the
          > appearances;
          > > it would not explain the empty tomb; only the
          > resurrection
          > > explains all of these."
          >
          > YOUR statement is an argument for the empty tomb.
          > The K&T statement is
          > an argument for the resurrection. The reason you
          > give for saying that
          > Parsons didn't take (13) seriously enough is thus in
          > the nature of a non sequitur.

          Yes, you're right; I mistook the direction of K&T's
          objection. Thanks.

          Loren Rosson III
          Nashua NH
          rossoiii@...

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        • David B. Gowler
          Has anyone come across a review of Gerd Theissen s Die Jesusbewegung? I know it s a bit early, since it just came out in 2004, but I have not yet been able to
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 9, 2005
            Has anyone come across a review of Gerd Theissen's Die Jesusbewegung? I know
            it's a bit early, since it just came out in 2004, but I have not yet been able
            to locate a review here at Emory or online. You can contact me offlist at
            dgowler@....
            With many thanks and every good wish,
            David

            ******************************
            Dr. David B. Gowler
            Pierce Professor of Religion; Associate Professor
            Oxford College of Emory University
            http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~dgowler
            ******************************
            Barack Obama, Nov 2, 2004: If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who
            can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior
            citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between
            medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my
            grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without
            benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's
            that fundamental belief--I am my brother's keeper, I am my sisters'
            keeper--that makes this country work. It's what allows us to pursue our
            individual dreams, yet still come together as a single American family. "E
            pluribus unum." Out of many, one.



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