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Re: [XTalk] John the Baptizer and the LP

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  • Loren Rosson
    ... Joan Taylor gives the idea credence. See The Immerser: John the Baptist Within Second-Temple Judaism, pp 151-153. Against the common idea that Jesus was
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 3, 2005
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      Jeffrey wrote:

      > On the recent History Channel program on J the B,�a
      > few of the talking
      > heads, including Murphy-O'Connor asserted that�
      > "some" believe/have
      > argued that the Lord's Prayer originated with John.
      >
      > Can any one identify who these "some" are? Who has
      > made this claim?

      Joan Taylor gives the idea credence. See The Immerser:
      John the Baptist Within Second-Temple Judaism, pp
      151-153. Against the common idea that Jesus was asked
      to teach his disciples a short prayer in the same way
      John taught his disciples a (different) short prayer,
      Taylor argues that the wording of Lk 11:1 is ambiguous
      enough to indicate that it was the same prayer taught
      by John. She further suggests that the LP fits John's
      teaching as a whole, with close connections between
      eschatology and practical considerations; forgiveness
      of sins; etc. "It seems likely that much more of
      John's message has remained than has hitherto been
      recognized and that it is embedded in the heart of the
      Christian ethos." (153)



      Loren Rosson III
      Nashua NH
      rossoiii@...



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    • Jeffrey B. Gibson
        ... Thanks for this. Does Taylor note if she is alone in this view?  That is to say, does she adduce anyone else who has suggested/argued for this view?
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 3, 2005
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        Loren Rosson wrote:

        > Jeffrey wrote:
        >
        > > On the recent History Channel program on J the B, a
        > > few of the talking
        > > heads, including Murphy-O'Connor asserted that
        > > "some" believe/have
        > > argued that the Lord's Prayer originated with John.
        > >
        > > Can any one identify who these "some" are? Who has
        > > made this claim?
        >
        > Joan Taylor gives the idea credence. See The Immerser:
        > John the Baptist Within Second-Temple Judaism, pp
        > 151-153. Against the common idea that Jesus was asked
        > to teach his disciples a short prayer in the same way
        > John taught his disciples a (different) short prayer,
        > Taylor argues that the wording of Lk 11:1 is ambiguous
        > enough to indicate that it was the same prayer taught
        > by John. She further suggests that the LP fits John's
        > teaching as a whole, with close connections between
        > eschatology and practical considerations; forgiveness
        > of sins; etc. "It seems likely that much more of
        > John's message has remained than has hitherto been
        > recognized and that it is embedded in the heart of the
        > Christian ethos." (153)

        Thanks for this.

        Does Taylor note if she is alone in this view?  That is to say, does she adduce
        anyone else who has suggested/argued for this view?

        Yours,

        Jeffrey
        --

        Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

        1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
        Chicago, IL 60626

        jgibson000@...
         
      • Loren Rosson
        Jeffrey, ... She doesn t cite anyone else in the text or footnotes, so I assume she is one of very few who believe this. I ve not come across the argument
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 4, 2005
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          Jeffrey,

          > Does Taylor note if she is alone in [believing
          > that the LP originated with the Baptist]? That
          > is to say, does she adduce
          > anyone else who has suggested/argued for
          > this view?

          She doesn't cite anyone else in the text or footnotes,
          so I assume she is one of very few who believe this.
          I've not come across the argument anywhere else.

          Loren Rosson III
          Nashua NH
          rossoiii@...



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