Re: [XTalk] Disciples' Name changing
----- Original Message -----
From: "fellows_richard" <fellows_richard@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [XTalk] Disciples' Name changing
> Renaming was common in the ancient world and took various forms.
> 1. Jews and Egyptians often took a Latin or Greek name to supplement
> their ethnic name. Saul-Paul and John-Mark are examples of this. We
> cannot be sure whether both names were held from infancy.
> 2. Religious re-naming was also common. In the early church we have
> Simon-Cephas, Joseph-Barnabas, and Ignatius-Theophorus. I believe
> that Crispus-Sosthenes and Titus-Timothy are further examples. In
> each of these cases the individual seems to have been given a new
> name that reflects their role in the church. Also, there is reason
> to believe that the one giving the new name invariably had authority
> over the one named.
I don't think the Semitic names are as much a "renaming" as Greek and Latin
transliteration. "Simon-Cephas" was Shymeon bar Yonah who was nicknamed
Kefa. "Joseph Barnabas" would have been Yahosef bar Naba. Do we know for
sure that Shymeon bar Yonah/Kefa was ever called "Petros" in his lifetime
and outside of the Greek NT translation from the Aramaic?
Nathanael bar Tolmay, Yaqub bar Zebedy, Yohanon bar Zebedy, Yaqub bar Halpy,
Mattaya bar Halpy...were any of these talmuddaya, if historical, familiar
with their Greek transliterated names or were they renamed by the Greek
speaking authors of the NT?
San Marcos, Tx.
- [David Hindley]
>The hairy thing about it, for me, is that the date of the baptist's deathseems to later than Jesus' (I find the short-order succession of events the
I'm getting a bit confused here, David. Josephus links the Herodias affair
with the Aretas war, despite the time lapse. Josephus cites JBap's
teaching, baptism and powerful influence as reasons for getting rid of him,
but in this case doesn't seem to make specific ties to events leading to the
war. Popular opinion does cite the defeat as a punishment for his
execution, but does that demand close dating?
I admit to wanting to have my cake and eat it! There seems to be widespread
acceptance that the war with Aretas came after JBap and the passion. I am
not aware of any challenge to the Herodias affair predating the Gospel
period. That leaves me lots of wriggle room. I can indulge myself on two
fronts - history and tradition. Yippee! (British translation of YEEHAAA!)
Richard Anderson's contribution to this discussion adds to your own comment
about dates being hotly debated. I lack the expertise to unravel that
>Then again, there *is* that saying about kings not going to war without"counting the costs." What thinkest thou, Ernest?<
The Dominical saying about a foolish king going to war does not necessarily
have to follow actual war with Aretas. It also makes sense in the context
of a Galilee in which Antipas is preparing for war, with scant public
support, which is exactly the scenario I am suggesting as a factor in
interpreting tradition. It also harmonises with my favourite personal
speculation (with no support that I know of): that the instructions given
to the twelve and seventy were to counter the impact of recruiting and
provisioning officers marauding around Galilee like a pack of ravenous
wolves, on a forced muster for a nervous Antipas.
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