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Embarrassment and Mark 15.34

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  • Mark Goodacre
    It is commonly said in historical Jesus studies that Mark 15.34, Jesus cry of dereliction on the cross, satisfies the criterion of embarrassment or against
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 2, 2004
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      It is commonly said in historical Jesus studies that Mark 15.34,
      Jesus' cry of dereliction on the cross, satisfies the criterion of
      "embarrassment" or "against the grain". But I am puzzled by this.
      Mark's entire Passion Narrative tells the story of Jesus' loneliness
      and abandonment, from the moment when "everyone deserted him and fled"
      in Mark 14.50, including a young man who even left his clothes behind
      in his flight (Mark 14.51-2). Mark apparently sees this as in
      fulfilment of the Scriptures (Mark 14.27, "I will strike the shepherd
      and the sheep will be scattered", Zech. 13.7) and repeatedly stresses
      Jesus' loneliness in his final hours. Everyone, even those crucified
      with him, join in the mockery (15.32 etc.). So when Mark has Jesus
      uttering the words of Psalm 22.1, where Jesus expresses his
      abandonment even by God (15.34), this is just where the narrative has
      been leading all along. What's more, this is just what one might
      expect of a victim of crucifixion -- he is experiencing the "anomalous
      frightful", the totally shameful and degrading death on the cross. In
      what way is Mark in the least bit embarrassed by this? He is telling
      a compelling story of a victim of the most vile of punishments, is he
      not?

      Mark

      --
      Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
      Dept of Theology and Religion
      University of Birmingham
      Elmfield House, Selly Oak tel.+44 121 414 7512
      Birmingham B29 6LQ UK fax: +44 121 415 8376

      http://www.theology.bham.ac.uk/goodacre
      http://NTGateway.com
    • Zeba Crook
      Dear Mark, I agree. In addition, I would want to see *how* we know this to have been embarrassing. An argument for authenticity according to the criterion of
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 2, 2004
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        Dear Mark,

        I agree. In addition, I would want to see *how* we know this to have
        been embarrassing. An argument for authenticity according to the
        criterion of embarrassment would be more compelling by pointing to
        Matthean or Lukan redaction that illustrates their own embarrassment, or
        manuscript variants that reflect scribal or orthodox embarrassment. But
        both types of evidence are lacking (you could argue that Luke was
        embarrassed, but then have to explain why Matt was not, and the MSS
        tradition attests to plenty of variants in that short passage, but none
        of them appear to be theologically motivated).

        Cheers,

        Zeb

        Mark Goodacre wrote:

        >It is commonly said in historical Jesus studies that Mark 15.34,
        >Jesus' cry of dereliction on the cross, satisfies the criterion of
        >"embarrassment" or "against the grain". But I am puzzled by this.
        >Mark's entire Passion Narrative tells the story of Jesus' loneliness
        >and abandonment, from the moment when "everyone deserted him and fled"
        >in Mark 14.50, including a young man who even left his clothes behind
        >in his flight (Mark 14.51-2). Mark apparently sees this as in
        >fulfilment of the Scriptures (Mark 14.27, "I will strike the shepherd
        >and the sheep will be scattered", Zech. 13.7) and repeatedly stresses
        >Jesus' loneliness in his final hours. Everyone, even those crucified
        >with him, join in the mockery (15.32 etc.). So when Mark has Jesus
        >uttering the words of Psalm 22.1, where Jesus expresses his
        >abandonment even by God (15.34), this is just where the narrative has
        >been leading all along. What's more, this is just what one might
        >expect of a victim of crucifixion -- he is experiencing the "anomalous
        >frightful", the totally shameful and degrading death on the cross. In
        >what way is Mark in the least bit embarrassed by this? He is telling
        >a compelling story of a victim of the most vile of punishments, is he
        >not?
        >
        >Mark
        >
        >
        >

        --

        Zeba A. Crook

        Assistant Professor, Classics and Religion

        Carleton University

        2a54 Paterson Hall

        1125 Colonel By Drive

        Ottawa, Ontario

        K1S 5B6

        http://www.carleton.ca/~zcrook/ <http://www.carleton.ca/%7Ezcrook/>







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Pawel Glowacki
        I have a question concerning Mk 15;34. An Israeli friend of mine with no knowledge of the Passion Story couldn t understand the words ELOI ELOI LAMA
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 2, 2004
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          I have a question concerning Mk 15;34. An Israeli friend of mine with no
          knowledge of the Passion Story couldn't understand the words
          ELOI ELOI LAMA SABACHTHANI.
          Then we looked into The Book of Psalms in Hebrew and found that what is
          there is actually
          ELI ELI LAMA AZAVTANI,
          which made a perfect sense to her. Is the Hebrew part of Mk 15;34
          distorted? How is this explained?
          Pawel
        • James Hammond
          In The Holy Bible Aramaic translation by George M Lamsa, he translates it as ‘And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice and said, “Eli, Eli,
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 3, 2004
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            In The Holy Bible Aramaic translation by George M Lamsa, he translates it as
            ‘And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice and said, “Eli,
            Eli, lmana shabakthani! My God, My God, for this I was spared, this was my
            destiny”’ He therefore claims that Jesus is not quoting Psalm 22, stating
            that nashatani means ‘forsaken me’ whilst Sabachthani means ‘kept me’.

            The whole idea of God the Father 'turning his back' on Jesus seems
            impossible. Bob Passantino has an excellent article on this, titled "Did the
            Father Leave the Son on the Cross?" and James Oliver Buswell's Systematic
            Theology of the Christian Religion also goes into detail about this.

            I'm assuming I'm answering the right query in your posting!

            Regards
            James Hammond
            Pastor, Worldwide Church of God, Ramsey, United Kingdom



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Pawel Glowacki [mailto:paglo53@...]
            Sent: 03 November 2004 07:13
            To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [XTalk] Embarrassment and Mark 15.34



            I have a question concerning Mk 15;34. An Israeli friend of mine with no
            knowledge of the Passion Story couldn't understand the words ELOI ELOI LAMA
            SABACHTHANI.
            Then we looked into The Book of Psalms in Hebrew and found that what is
            there is actually ELI ELI LAMA AZAVTANI, which made a perfect sense to her.
            Is the Hebrew part of Mk 15;34 distorted? How is this explained?
            Pawel







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