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RE: RE: "Jews" in John and Acts

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  • John E Staton
    Ernest wrote: That s an interesting way of looking at this, but whereas Jesus is portrayed as a willing guest/host who drew criticism from his detractors,
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 16, 2004
      Ernest wrote:
      "That's an interesting way of looking at this, but whereas Jesus is
      portrayed as a willing guest/host who drew criticism from his detractors,
      the dispute between Jew/Gentile factions points to internal tensions among
      his followers. Those tax harvesters whose collaborative posture provoke
      hostility in the Gospels, simply vanish in Acts."

      This is what one would expect as the scene shifts from Jesus earthly
      ministry to the history of the church. One may suspect the concerns of the
      church lie beneath the surface in the gospel, but Luke is too good a writer
      to let them intrude too obviously. It may well be, however, that the stories
      about the tax harveters are being told with an eye to the dispute concerning
      Gentile believers in Luke's day. It is likely that the practice of having
      table-fellowship with uncircumcised people (even though they are believers)
      was one of (if not the main) points of issue between Paul's group and the
      Judaizers (cf Galatians 2)

      Best Wishes

      JOHN E STATON
      Penistone, Sheffield UK
      www.jestaton.org
      jestaton@...

      JOHN E STATON
      Penistone, Sheffield UK
      www.jestaton.org
      jestaton@...
    • Linda & Ernest Pennells
      [John E. Staton] ... told with an eye to the dispute concerning Gentile believers in Luke s day
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 22, 2004
        [John E. Staton]
        >It may well be, however, that the stories about the tax harveters are being
        told with an eye to the dispute concerning Gentile believers in Luke's day<

        Mmmmm ... that demotes the taxation issue more than I feel willing to grant.
        Criticism of Jesus' attitude to table fellowship started from a local tax
        office in Galilee, according to the synoptics. This escalated to a public
        insurrectionist dispute over the denarius in Jerusalem after what, IMHO,
        was a public demonstration against temple tax just after Jesus had been
        given a messianic welcome. Luke adds a powerful demonstration of
        willingness to embrace a high profile Roman tax official - Zacchaeus.

        Previous discussions on XTalk have aired this theme, and I would add
        m.Sheqalim 1.3: "On the fifteenth of that same month [Adar] they set up
        money changers tables in the provinces. On the twenty-fifth [of Adar] they
        set them up in the temple. Once they were set up in the temple, they began
        to exact pledges [from those who had not paid the tax in specie]" (Jacob
        Neusner translation, 1988). At face value, this establishes a connection
        between money changers IN THE TEMPLE, and temple tax.

        Taxation was an explosive issue in Roman-Jewish relationships, given high
        profile by Josephus as well as the synoptic gospels. It plays a prominent
        role in the political profile of the gospels.

        The divisive issue for gentile mission was whether gentile converts should
        become Jews. For me, that debate is in different territory.

        Regards,

        Ernie Pennells
        220 - 50 Songhees Road, Victoria BC, Canada V9A 7J4
        http://www.lukeacts.com
        Tel: (250) 381 5674

        -----Original Message-----
        From: John E Staton [mailto:jestaton@...]
        Sent: June 16, 2004 11:13 AM
        To: Crosstalk
        Subject: [XTalk] RE: RE: "Jews" in John and Acts
      • Mike Grondin
        ... Ernie- What Neusner work is this from? What is m.Sheqalim ? What year is being talked about? Mike Grondin Mt. Clemens, MI
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 23, 2004
          > m.Sheqalim 1.3: "On the fifteenth of that same month [Adar] they
          > set up money changers tables in the provinces. On the twenty-
          > fifth [of Adar] they set them up in the temple. Once they were
          > set up in the temple, they began to exact pledges [from those
          > who had not paid the tax in specie]" (Jacob Neusner translation,
          > 1988). At face value, this establishes a connection between
          > money changers IN THE TEMPLE, and temple tax.

          Ernie-

          What Neusner work is this from? What is "m.Sheqalim"? What year is
          being talked about?

          Mike Grondin
          Mt. Clemens, MI
        • pennells@islandnet.com
          Hope to reply on Friday, when I am back at base. Regards, Ernie
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 23, 2004
            Hope to reply on Friday, when I am back at base.

            Regards, Ernie


            > > m.Sheqalim 1.3: "On the fifteenth of that same month [Adar] they
            > > set up money changers tables in the provinces. On the twenty-
            > > fifth [of Adar] they set them up in the temple. Once they were
            > > set up in the temple, they began to exact pledges [from those
            > > who had not paid the tax in specie]" (Jacob Neusner translation,
            > > 1988). At face value, this establishes a connection between
            > > money changers IN THE TEMPLE, and temple tax.
            >
            > Ernie-
            >
            > What Neusner work is this from? What is "m.Sheqalim"? What year is
            > being talked about?
            >
            > Mike Grondin
            > Mt. Clemens, MI
            >
            >
            >
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