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Re: addition re: Lost Gospels

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  • Tim Smith
    ... BOB & ALL: Just a curious bit here regarding the Pagels/BWIII situation. The following link is to a discussion hosted by beliefnet.com between Pagels and
    Message 1 of 4 , May 25, 2004
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      --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com,
      --- Bob Schacht <bobschacht@i...>
      --- wrote:

      > but I strongly object to its
      > implied application to Pagels,
      > King, and anyone else who
      > disagrees with traditional
      > scholarship about the Bible
      > (isn't that what a gadfly does?)
      > Just because one is a gadfly
      > does not mean that one, ipso
      > facto, writes "really bad"
      > history.

      BOB & ALL:

      Just a curious bit here regarding
      the Pagels/BWIII situation. The
      following link is to a discussion
      hosted by beliefnet.com between
      Pagels and Witherington.

      http://www.beliefnet.com/story/143/story_14376.html

      It followed quickly on the heels of the Peter Jennings TV special on
      Paul the Apostle. Beliefnet titled the "debate" SCHOLARLY
      SMACKDOWN. :-)

      Beliefnet had gotten a very positive response to a similar thing
      they did with Crossan and Witherington following on the heels of the
      release of Gibson's Passion movie.

      Elaine Pagel's dialog with Witherington got off to a rousing start,
      wherein she shared that she used Witherington's writings in her
      classes at Princeton! Then, for no apparent reason, she just
      stopped communicating in middle of the exchange. Its now been well
      over a month since her last reply. If anyone here has contact with
      her, they might inquire as to what happened? I know I'd like to see
      it completed. It was very interesting.

      Tim
    • Mark Goodacre
      ... It actually was completed, but beliefnet seem to have forgotten to index the last exchange on the main page, so go to to following URL to see it:
      Message 2 of 4 , May 25, 2004
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        On 25 May 2004 at 20:26, Tim Smith wrote:

        > Elaine Pagel's dialog with Witherington got off to a rousing start,
        > wherein she shared that she used Witherington's writings in her
        > classes at Princeton! Then, for no apparent reason, she just stopped
        > communicating in middle of the exchange. Its now been well over a
        > month since her last reply. If anyone here has contact with her, they
        > might inquire as to what happened? I know I'd like to see it
        > completed. It was very interesting.

        It actually was completed, but beliefnet seem to have forgotten to
        index the last exchange on the main page, so go to to following URL
        to see it:

        http://www.belief.net/story/143/story_14376_6.html#ben_040422

        I enjoyed the two "Scholarly Smackdown"s on Beliefnet but found them
        both a bit frustrating. Here are some reflections copied from my
        blog entry on this, with a little ad for Xtalk at the end (sincerely
        meant):

        > Final reflection on the two Beliefnet Scholarly Smackdowns: so far they
        > are a useful but flawed experiment. What they have been good at has been
        > giving the reader a flavour of each of the author's views. They are useful
        > mini-articles. What they have been less good at has been the
        > (unfortunately titled) "smackdown" of the title, which I am told is a
        > wrestling analogy. There is precious little wrestling here! Because the
        > scholars concerned (Crossan, Pagels and Witherington) have been encouraged
        > to write relatively lengthy, self-contained emails, the actual critical
        > engagement has been too limited. There has been too much talking past one
        > another. If you want a good quality of interaction, I still think you have
        > to go a long way to beat Xtalk at its best. It's not always at its best,
        > of course, but when it is it's the most stimulating around.
        (http://ntgateway.com/weblog/2004/05/pagels-answers-witherington-on-thomas.html)

        Mark


        -----------------------------
        Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
        Graduate Institute for Theology & Religion
        Dept of Theology
        University of Birmingham
        Elmfield House, Bristol Road tel.+44 121 414 7512
        Birmingham B29 6LQ UK fax: +44 121 415 8376

        http://www.theology.bham.ac.uk/goodacre
        http://NTGateway.com
      • Tim Smith
        ... MARK: Thanks loads for the link. How did you find it anyway? I agree with your blog s assessment on both counts. Xtalk at its best, even though alot of it
        Message 3 of 4 , May 25, 2004
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          --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com,
          --- "Mark Goodacre" <M.S.Goodacre@b...>
          --- wrote:

          MARK:

          Thanks loads for the link. How did
          you find it anyway?

          I agree with your blog's
          assessment on both counts. Xtalk
          at its best, even though alot of
          it is beyond my level, is fascinating
          stuff!

          Lay-folks such as myself tend to
          find ourselves quite often in
          "less-than-critical" mode, flinging
          quotes from this or that favorite
          scholarly viewpoint, really churning
          up the water but, unfortunately not
          making alot of progress toward the
          dock. But we do try -- quite hard in fact -- to establish our points
          with all the reason we can muster.

          The chance to read/see respected scholars from rather opposite sides
          of the theological divide go at it..., well, its just almost too much
          to resist. :-)

          Thanks again for the link.

          Tim
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