>> Q1 also has 8 parallels and Luke's order exactly follows Q1.
>> Isn't a reconstruction of Q1's order dependent upon the critical
>> assessment that Luke preserves Q's order ...?
>> OF COURSE Q1 "exactly follows" Luke, since Luke was the model
>> for most of reconstructed Q's order to begin with! (emphasis mine)
>> That's surely a possibility, but then it is also possible that
>> such as Mack and the IQP scholars are essentially correct about
>> Q and Luke utilized it directly just as he sometimes used Mark
>I don't know what you think is merely a "possibility" in what Dave
>stated, Gordon. His statements are factually accurate. What you say
>is "also possible" is in fact not an alternative, but the addition
>of a "maybe they're right" clause to what Dave had said. But the
>point of Dave's note is that you presented it as remarkable that
>"Luke's order exactly follows Q1", when it isn't remarkable at all,
>given that Q was constructed (rightly or wrongly) in Lucan order.
First the word "remarkable" is yours. Second, if the Q Sermon was a part of
a written document and if Luke had it and copied its order to construct his
own Sermon on the Plain, then what we are seeing here is a parallel
phenomena as what we see Matthew and Luke doing when they exactly copy Mark
at certain places. It is a possibility that the Q scholars correctly
detected the original order in that Sermon. I think the Q Sermon which has
only one extra paragraph added in the whole of Q hangs together and makes
sense as a very early sermonic collection of individual aphorisms. The
Didache shows "a Decalogue" like framing. The Q Sermon and then both
Matthew's and Luke's play with it, and our knowledge that preaching was and
still is rather at the heart of what followers of Jesus did and do with his
words, show that sermonic creativity is another sort of framing. You are
right, it is a fact that Q scholars have chosen Luke's ordering to establish
Q. But it also may **a fact** that Luke preserved the Q sermon order as he
had it on parchment to do his own creativity.