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RE: [XTalk] the film..

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  • Bob Webb
    Perhaps it is important, both with the NT and with film, that we distinguish between anti-semitism by the author/film-maker and anti-semitism by the
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 1, 2004
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      Perhaps it is important, both with the NT and with film, that we distinguish
      between anti-semitism by the author/film-maker and anti-semitism by the
      reader/viewer. And further to distinguish whether the anti-semitism by the
      reader/viewer is based upon an appropriate reading/viewing of the material
      or, as you suggest, as mis/over-reading/viewing of the material.

      Bob Webb.


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Zeba Crook [mailto:zcrook@...]
      > Sent: Monday, March 1, 2004 2:56 PM
      > To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [XTalk] the film..
      >
      >
      > Dr. Rikk E. Watts (Cantab) wrote:
      >
      > >This film does not blame all Jews everywhere and for all
      > time for the
      > >death of Jesus (I think that much is obvious to all except the
      > >willfully blind). I would hope that some folk would likewise refrain
      > >from sweeping condemnations by not corralling this film with
      > all past
      > >injustices of "all" Christians everywhere.
      > >
      > I'm going to see the movie (grudgingly) tomorrow. But I
      > would like to
      > drop a quick note on this just because I've seen it in
      > various settings
      > of late. I can easily grant this for the movie; but the fact is that
      > the NT Gospels also not blame all jews everywhere and for all
      > time for
      > the death of Jesus (save for one small part in Matthew, and even this
      > would be a questionable interpretation). And yet the gospels
      > have been
      > used for precisely that purpose by Christians who were missing the
      > subtler point. So, the more pertinent issue with respect to
      > this movie
      > is less whether or not it blames all Jews forever, but
      > whether some (or
      > many) Christians will continue in the tradition of their past to read
      > these sentiments into the movie. Jewish and other discomfort
      > over this
      > movie is motivated by a history of Christian mis- or
      > over-interpretation
      > of the Gospels, and less by whether the movie itself does
      > this or not.
      > In other words, the history of Christianity (and in many Christian
      > circles the present reality) suggests that the actual intent of the
      > movie is moot.
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Zeb
      >
      > --
      >
      > Zeba A. Crook
      >
      > Assistant Professor, Religion and Classics
      >
      > Carleton University
      >
      > 1125 Colonel By Drive
      >
      > Ottawa, Ontario
      >
      > Canada K1S 5B6
      >
      >
      >
      > 613-520-2600, ext. 2276
      >
      http://www.carleton.ca/~zcrook/



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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    • Bob Schacht
      ... I think also that the movie assumes knowledge of the doctrine of atonement, and hints at it with the Isaiah quote at the beginning. If you don t view the
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 1, 2004
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        At 03:14 PM 3/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
        >Perhaps it is important, both with the NT and with film, that we distinguish
        >between anti-semitism by the author/film-maker and anti-semitism by the
        >reader/viewer. And further to distinguish whether the anti-semitism by the
        >reader/viewer is based upon an appropriate reading/viewing of the material
        >or, as you suggest, as mis/over-reading/viewing of the material.
        >
        >Bob Webb.

        I think also that the movie assumes knowledge of the doctrine of atonement,
        and hints at it with the Isaiah quote at the beginning. If you don't view
        the movie through that lens, it would be easy to be drawn to anti-semitic
        interpretations.

        Bob Schacht



        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: Zeba Crook [mailto:zcrook@...]
        > > Sent: Monday, March 1, 2004 2:56 PM
        > > To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [XTalk] the film..
        > >
        > >
        > > Dr. Rikk E. Watts (Cantab) wrote:
        > >
        > > >This film does not blame all Jews everywhere and for all
        > > time for the
        > > >death of Jesus (I think that much is obvious to all except the
        > > >willfully blind). I would hope that some folk would likewise refrain
        > > >from sweeping condemnations by not corralling this film with
        > > all past
        > > >injustices of "all" Christians everywhere.
        > > >
        > > I'm going to see the movie (grudgingly) tomorrow. But I
        > > would like to
        > > drop a quick note on this just because I've seen it in
        > > various settings
        > > of late. I can easily grant this for the movie; but the fact is that
        > > the NT Gospels also not blame all jews everywhere and for all
        > > time for
        > > the death of Jesus (save for one small part in Matthew, and even this
        > > would be a questionable interpretation). And yet the gospels
        > > have been
        > > used for precisely that purpose by Christians who were missing the
        > > subtler point. So, the more pertinent issue with respect to
        > > this movie
        > > is less whether or not it blames all Jews forever, but
        > > whether some (or
        > > many) Christians will continue in the tradition of their past to read
        > > these sentiments into the movie. Jewish and other discomfort
        > > over this
        > > movie is motivated by a history of Christian mis- or
        > > over-interpretation
        > > of the Gospels, and less by whether the movie itself does
        > > this or not.
        > > In other words, the history of Christianity (and in many Christian
        > > circles the present reality) suggests that the actual intent of the
        > > movie is moot.
        > >
        > > Cheers,
        > >
        > > Zeb
        > >
        > > --
        > >
        > > Zeba A. Crook
        > >
        > > Assistant Professor, Religion and Classics
        > >
        > > Carleton University
        > >
        > > 1125 Colonel By Drive
        > >
        > > Ottawa, Ontario
        > >
        > > Canada K1S 5B6
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 613-520-2600, ext. 2276
        > >
        ><http://www.carleton.ca/~zcrook/>http://www.carleton.ca/~zcrook/
        >
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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      • Vince Endris
        ... but the fact is that ... I do not understand how this would be a questionable interpretation other than the fact that Matt. might not have expected people
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 1, 2004
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          >From: Zeba Crook <zcrook@...>

          but the fact is that
          >the NT Gospels also not blame all jews everywhere and for all time for
          >the death of Jesus (save for one small part in Matthew, and even this
          >would be a questionable interpretation).

          I do not understand how this would be a questionable interpretation other
          than the fact that Matt. might not have expected people 2000 years later
          interpreting it. However, if I gave credence to the biblical account as a
          good source for history (and/or theology), I find it hard to argue that the
          blame is not on the jews and their children. Now, I myself do not believe
          this at all and understand the blame motif in Matt. and how he uses it.
          However, if someone wanted to argue the other way, they sure have lots of
          ammo.

          Vince Endris

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