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4Q521 was (Re: Messiah in spite of himself)

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  • Brian Trafford
    ... Well, not to speak for Rikk, but the full text of 4Q521 reads: ...[the hea]vens and the earth will listen to His Messiah, and none therein will stray from
    Message 1 of 76 , Dec 1, 2003
      --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, "Richard H. Anderson"
      <randerson58@c...> wrote:
      >I think you missed what I said:
      >Line 11 of 4Q521 reads:
      >For he will heal the wounded, resurrect the dead,
      >and proclaim glad tiding to the poor.
      >In both Matthew and Luke we read of a deputation that John the
      >Baptist sends to Jesus while John is imprisoned. John's disciples
      >ask Jesus, "Are you the coming one, or do we look for another?" The
      >story is thus tightly framed around the question of messianic
      >identity: what will the signs of the true Messiah be? Jesus answers:
      >Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind
      >receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf
      >hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the glad tiding
      >preached to them (Luke 7:22-23 and Matthew 11:4-5).
      >Your comments about blindness do not seem to be responsive to 4Q521.

      Well, not to speak for Rikk, but the full text of 4Q521 reads:

      "...[the hea]vens and the earth will listen to His Messiah, and none
      therein will stray from the commandments of the holy ones. Seekers
      of the Lord, strengthen yourselves in His service! All you hopeful
      in your heart, will you not find the Lord in this? For the Lord will
      consider the pious and call the righteous by name. Over the poor His
      spirit will hover and will renew the faithful with His power. And He
      will glorify the pious on the throne of the eternal Kingdom. He who
      liberates the captives, restores sight to the blind, straightens the
      b[ent]. And f[or] ever I will clea[ve to the h]opeful and in His
      mercy...And the fr[uit...] will not be delayed for anyone. And the
      Lord will accomplish glorious things which have never been as...For
      He will heal the wounded, and revive the dead and bring good news to
      the poor"

      So while the concluding line does speak of healing the wounded (did
      Jesus actually do this? Excepting, of course, the ear cut off of the
      man during his arrest, which would not seem to apply to what the
      author of 4Q521 was thinking about), we see that it also talks about
      the blind being healed, and something bent being straightened. This
      bit does look a lot like Isaiah, and appears to be what Rikk is
      talking about.

      >Luke's Son of God is the messiah. Luke rejected the interpretations
      >provided by Qumran messianism to the context of these words and
      >phrases and provided a new interpretation for his community. Thus
      >Luke was in dialogue with those using what he labeled as "idle

      Maybe Luke knew the DSS, but he almost certainly *did* know Mark,
      and he would have already encountered "son of God" there, as well
      as "Most High" (Mark 5:7). He might also have taken "son of the
      Most High" from Psalm 82:6 or elsewhere from the LXX?

      >Luke tells us that Jesus is a "prophet like Moses" not greater than
      >Moses and he alludes to Deut 18:15 on a number of occasions. Luke
      >envisions Jesus to be a Messiah but modeled after Moses, Elijah and
      >Elisha. The Lucan Jesus rejects violence and heals the servant of
      >the High Priest whose ear had been severed by Peter. The Lucan
      >Jesus rejected not only Peter's vision of the messiah but also the
      >vision of the Qumran community of a priestly messiah and he does so
      >prior to the arrival of the Roman armies led by Vespasian.

      If we consider both Luke and Acts, Jesus is clearly presented by
      Luke as being greater than Moses, or Elijah, or anyone else from the
      OT. All of the OT characters are dead and buried, but Jesus is not
      (Acts 2), and this makes Jesus qualitatively very different from any
      of the OT prophets, and even King David.

      As for Luke rejecting the Qumran view of the Messiah, I would need
      more evidence that he even knew of their works. I happen to think
      that the author of John knew some of the Essene theology, and the
      author of Hebrews certainly did. But Luke can be shown to depend
      upon Mark and the LXX for his expressions of the "son of God" and
      the "son of the Most High", so I do not think that that we can use
      these expressions, nor even the statements about the healing of the
      blind and wounded as evidence of dependence upon the DSS. Since
      Luke could have gotten the latter statements from Isaiah, and we
      already know that he used Isaih extensively, there is little reason
      to posit dependence, or even knowledge of, the DSS.


      Brian Trafford
      Calgary, AB, Canada
    • Ted Weeden
      Dear Listers, I had indicated two weeks ago that I would submit my own response to responses of others re the thread Messiah in spite of himself in an
      Message 76 of 76 , Dec 18, 2003
        Dear Listers,

        I had indicated two weeks ago that I would submit my own response to
        responses of others re the thread "Messiah in spite of himself" in an
        article which Jeffrey Gibson has offered to upload to the Xtalk articles
        page. With the demand of other matters, it has taken far longer than I had
        envisioned to complete the article. And with the holidays at hand, it
        looks like I cannot get this article out until after the first of the year.
        I plan in the article not only to deal with matters related to the "Messiah"
        thread but also to incorporate in it issues related to the "4Q521" thread
        and the "Gospel of Mary Magdalene" thread, which I had introduced.

        Happy holidays to you all.

        Ted Weeden
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