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Re: [XTalk] Re: Messiah in spite of himself

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  • LeeEdgarTyler@aol.com
    In a message dated 12/1/2003 9:54:20 AM Central Standard Time, rwatts@interchange.ubc.ca writes: If views of the Messiah were as variegated and as widespread
    Message 1 of 76 , Dec 1, 2003
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      In a message dated 12/1/2003 9:54:20 AM Central Standard Time,
      rwatts@... writes:
      If views of the Messiah were as variegated and as widespread as Robert and
      Bob suggest then surely one would expect Paul to clarify just which of these
      Messiah's he had in view. It would be irresponsible not to, right? It seems
      more reasonable to suppose that Paul offers no clarification in these
      hundreds of cases because he happily assumes that his readers know exactly
      what he is talking about. (Hence I think the mistake of scholars who find
      the evidence of the intertestamental period ambiguous; it is only ambiguous
      if one doesn't bring the right assumptions. In the UK one doesn't need
      always to refer to Prime Minister Blair, either the PM or Blair will do.)

      This, however, is precisely the situation in which Paul's letters were
      written. He wrote to the initiated who already knew Paul's Christ and quite likely
      knew no other except in passing, with no details. Paul ought to assume that
      his readers knew what he was talking about--he proselytized most of them, or
      knew well those who did.

      This is another example of why I remain so skeptical of arguments from
      expectations. They have been so often shown wrong in other milieus that one cannot
      expect them to be correct when we bring them to the New Testament table. If
      an ancient writer meets our expectations in a case like this, it is
      coincidental.

      Rikk, you do not address the numerous Christological disputes Paul takes up
      in his letters. If there were no variant concepts of Christ afoot, then why
      must Paul spend so much time disputing them?

      Ed Tyler


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ted Weeden
      Dear Listers, I had indicated two weeks ago that I would submit my own response to responses of others re the thread Messiah in spite of himself in an
      Message 76 of 76 , Dec 18, 2003
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        Dear Listers,

        I had indicated two weeks ago that I would submit my own response to
        responses of others re the thread "Messiah in spite of himself" in an
        article which Jeffrey Gibson has offered to upload to the Xtalk articles
        page. With the demand of other matters, it has taken far longer than I had
        envisioned to complete the article. And with the holidays at hand, it
        looks like I cannot get this article out until after the first of the year.
        I plan in the article not only to deal with matters related to the "Messiah"
        thread but also to incorporate in it issues related to the "4Q521" thread
        and the "Gospel of Mary Magdalene" thread, which I had introduced.

        Happy holidays to you all.

        Ted Weeden
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