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Re: [XTalk] Re: origins of the doctrine of atonement

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    ... This link doesn t seem to work. Jeffrey -- Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.) 1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1 Chicago, IL 60626 jgibson000@comcast.net [Non-text
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 12, 2003
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      Crispin Fletcher-Louis wrote:

      > Richard, Geoffrey, Liz and all,
      > I've come in a little late to this fascinating discussion about the
      > high
      > priest in atonement. But may I offer a few observations:
      >
      > 1. In response to Geoffrey's question, 'how come no one has
      > suggested this
      > high priestly context for atonement before?' I would suggest this is
      > because
      > the high priest has been ignored, period. (see my article at
      > http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/jesus.pdf)
      >

      This link doesn't seem to work.

      Jeffrey
      --

      Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

      1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
      Chicago, IL 60626

      jgibson000@...



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Crispin Fletcher-Louis
      Geoffrey, ... Sorry about that. In that case, you¹ll have to go to http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/ And then scroll down the page until you get to ŒJesus and
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 12, 2003
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        Geoffrey,

        >> http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/jesus.pdf)
        >>
        >
        > This link doesn't seem to work.
        >
        Sorry about that. In that case, you¹ll have to go to
        http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/
        And then scroll down the page until you get to ŒJesus and the High Priest
        (Crispin H.T. Fletcher-Louis)¹ under Theme 14.

        I hope that works.
        Crispin.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jeffrey B. Gibson
        ... Thanks for this. I look forward to reading your paper. May I note, though, that one of my reasons for not seeing the death of the high priest, whether
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 12, 2003
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          Crispin Fletcher-Louis wrote:

          > Richard, Geoffrey, Liz and all,
          > I've come in a little late to this fascinating discussion about the
          > high
          > priest in atonement. But may I offer a few observations:
          >
          > 1. In response to Geoffrey's question, 'how come no one has
          > suggested this
          > high priestly context for atonement before?' I would suggest this is
          > because
          > the high priest has been ignored, period. (see my article at
          > http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/jesus.pdf)
          >
          > 2. Richard's ideas need now to be supplemented by a consideration of
          > Margaret Barker's thesis that the goat 'lyhwh' on the Day of Atonement
          > is a
          > substitute for the high priest (who plays the role of YHWH) in the
          > cultic
          > drama. It is the blood of this goat that makes the atonement (in the
          > pre-eminent act of atonement) as a substitute for the life (i.e.
          > Death) of
          > the high priest/yhwh. (See e.g. M. Barker, The Revelation of Jesus
          > Christ
          > (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 2000), 45 ...; M. Barker, The Great High
          > Priest.
          > The Temple Roots of Christian Liturgy (London: T. & T. Clark, 2003),
          > chapter
          > 3). In both books Barker has fascinating interpretative observations
          > on a
          > number of late second temple texts to support her thesis.

          Thanks for this. I look forward to reading your paper. May I note,
          though, that one of my reasons for not seeing the "death" of the high
          priest, whether on the Day of Atonement or not, as the origin of the
          belief in the atoning significance of Jesus is that the language used to
          describe the significance of Jesus death -- especially in Paul and in
          his "died for us/our sins" formula (the background of which is largely
          Greek) ---- has little in common with the imagery or the language
          surrounding the Temple cult and never seems to allude to the DoA..

          Perhaps you deal with this in your article?

          Yours,

          Jeffrey
          --

          Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

          1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
          Chicago, IL 60626

          jgibson000@...



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        • Brian Trafford
          ... mula.pdf Hi Jeffrey Would it be possible for you to link this particular essay into the XTalk archives? Thank you, Brian Trafford Calgary, AB, Canada
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 13, 2003
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            --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey B. Gibson"
            <jgibson000@c...> wrote:
            >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JBGibsonWritings/files/Paul27sDyingFor
            mula.pdf

            Hi Jeffrey

            Would it be possible for you to link this particular essay into the
            XTalk archives?

            Thank you,

            Brian Trafford
            Calgary, AB, Canada
          • Jeffrey B. Gibson
            ... It s now at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/crosstalk2/files/Paul%27sDyingFormula.pdf Jeffrey -- Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.) 1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 13, 2003
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              Brian Trafford wrote:

              > --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey B. Gibson"
              > <jgibson000@c...> wrote:
              > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JBGibsonWritings/files/Paul27sDyingFor
              > mula.pdf
              >
              > Hi Jeffrey
              >
              > Would it be possible for you to link this particular essay into the
              > XTalk archives?
              >

              It's now at:

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/crosstalk2/files/Paul%27sDyingFormula.pdf

              Jeffrey

              --

              Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

              1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
              Chicago, IL 60626

              jgibson000@...



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