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Re: [XTalk] ANQRWPOI in the Gospel of Mark

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  • Karel Hanhart
    ... From: Jeffrey B. Gibson To: Crosstalk2 Cc: Kata Markon ; Synoptic-L
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 10, 2003
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jeffrey B. Gibson <jgibson000@...>
      To: Crosstalk2 <crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: Kata Markon <gmark@...>; Synoptic-L
      <Synoptic-L@...>
      Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 9:43 PM
      Subject: [XTalk] ANQRWPOI in the Gospel of Mark


      > What if anything is there in Mark's Gospel that might
      > support the idea that for Mark the term ANQRWPOI is a reference to, or
      > a cipher for, or in some way synonymous with, the Jewish leaders who,
      > according to Mark, oppose Jesus?

      > jgibson000@...

      This important question is a difficult one to answer. Jeffrey's
      startingpoint is, - rightly I think -, Peter's disdain for a suffering
      Messiah.
      I believe we can be more precise. Peter's thinking regards 'ta twn
      anthrwpwn' which stands in immediate contrast to 'ho huios tou anthrwpou',
      the word 'anthrwpos' creating the parallel. The 'huios tou anthrwopou'
      (note
      the arresting article: the 'son of THE man) apparently does NOT think 'ta
      twn anthrwpwn'.
      Peter is unwilling to accept the inevitable, that the 'huios tou
      anthrwpou' MUST suffer. This 'dei' (must) is paradoxical. For Peter's
      reaction is a rational, human one, hence 'TA TWN ANTHRWPWN'. The saying that
      the Godsent eschatological 'huios TOU ANTHRWPOU' (the Human One) must
      suffer, die and rise is therefore self-contradictory. As Carlson underlined,
      "for humans it is impossible". Yet this suffering and death is within the
      council
      of God and therefore the predictions end with an humanly impossible ",,,and
      after three days rise again".
      So Jeffrey's question is intimately related to this enigmatic
      eschatological 'Human One' (Son of Man) in the Gospel.
      In the term 'ho huios tou anthrwpou' two biblical concepts are combined.
      (a) The strange article in 'the son of THE
      man' refers to Adam before the fall in the Genesis story. Adam is named in
      the LXX 'ho anthrwpos', untill the Fall.After ther Fall the name Adam
      appears
      (Joel Marcus). (b) In the Gospel the expression 'ho huios tou anthrwpou'
      clearly refers to Dan 7,13. Note f.i. Jesus' confession before Caiaphas in
      Mk 14 and the 'desolating sacrilege' in 13,14.

      In Daniel the 'bar nasj' is a collective term, refering (a) to a
      Messianic.redeemer 'like Adam' , a Human One, to whom all dominion will be
      given in the near future and (b) the 'saints of the Most High' who will
      share in this dominion. Thus in the passion predictions Jesus does not say
      "I" must suffer but the "Human One" must suffer. Mark rewrote a Passover
      Haggadah, a tragic/victorious story, in which key events in Israel's history
      of the past four decades, including persecution of the apostles, mission
      among the Gentiles and the fall of Jerusalem -, are referred to in light of
      the ministry of the Baptist and of the ministry and passion of Messiah
      Jesus. Mark chose the form of a Greek national tragedy, but its content is a
      Judean pass-over narrative. In Daniel 7 the God sent Messiah, the 'Human
      One', is promised in spite of the four worldpowers that like ferocious
      creatures dominated and at times persecuted the people: Egypt,
      Babylon/Persia, burgeoning Rome and Hellenic Syria. The
      Maccabean victory greatly enhanced this pre-Maccabean prophecy with its
      parousia expectation of justice and glory. This apocalyptic prophecy was
      still much alive as Judean apocalyptic literature demonstrates. Mark 8,38
      testifies that the Jesus of history himself related his ministrry to the
      coming of the Human One. In Dan 7,13ff this 'Human One', of course, does not
      suffer.The dominion, the power and the glory will be given this 'Human One'
      who comes with the clouds. In this seminal messianic vision the burning hope
      for the appeaance of a Godsent, eschatological 'last Adam' is awakened
      Now Mark is the first post-70 Christian Judean who introduced the
      theologoumenon of a SUFFERING last Adam. He was confronted with the
      breakdown of the imminent parousia expectation. It must be remembered that
      religion and national political hopes were much more intertwined than is the
      case in modern nations of the West.
      Thus Gibson's suggestion may be narrowed down within the framework of Mark's
      Pass-over Haggadah . Mark had a series of highpriestsn in mind, such as
      Caiaphas and Matthias, high priest under Herod Agrippa (Acts 12!) who were
      thinking 'ta twn anthrwpwn' in that .they had
      condemned Jesus and persecuted the apostles and thus in Mark's mind had
      brought doom on the entire nation.
      The triple passion prediction concerning the Human One is Mark's
      christological theme, as is widely ackowledged (8,31; 9.31; 10,33f). It
      forms the plot of the haggadah. The passion story later unfolds exactly as
      predicted by Jesus, along the lines of condemnation,.mocking, spitting,
      flogging and 'handing over' to the nations (10,33), Now the plural
      'highpriests' stands out as well as the 'handing over' to the 'nations'
      (!).The plot does not only refer to the Messiah, but to his people as well
      during the four decades. The apostles too will drink the cup, they must know
      that 'no stone will be left on the other'. They should understand that not
      only the 5000 were fed (Israel), but also the 4000 (the nations).The
      Haggadah is concentrated on the last passion week told as one terse
      messianic PASS-OVER story, offfering a theodicy of the 'why' of the
      crucifixion, the tremple's destruction and the new exile.
      The key to the 'must' of the suffering last Adam is found in the 'mystery'
      Rom 11,25, in the letter Paul sent to Rome. Mark had studied it there and
      referred to it in 4,10-12. The 'hardening of a part of Israel (the
      highpriests and themple authorities, was necessary and the Huiman One must
      suffer (dei), sothat the Gentiles may 'come in' . It is this theodicy,
      adapted from Paul, that Mark as the first Christian Judean put forward to
      explain the tragedy of the destruction of the Temple and the new Exile.
      Hence the promise ny the angel, "he will go before you in the Galil
      ha-goyim'.
      At the time of the crucifixion, there was only one highpriest , Caiaphas,
      whom Mark does NOT mention by name. So why the plural? Mark clearly and
      repeatedly states that highpriests (plural) were responsible. Thus
      Jeffrey's toying with 'temple authorities' appears to meet Mark's
      intentions. (As I see it, the highpriets belonging to the 'house of Annas',
      such as Caiaphas and Matthias under Herod Agrippa (Acts 12!) were
      historically reponsible for the persecution of Jesus' and his movement).
    • Horace Jeffery Hodges
      Stephen C. Carlson wrote:
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 10, 2003
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        Stephen C. Carlson wrote:

        <There was a total eclipe on March 19, 33, but it was
        visible only in the southern Indian ocean. Here's a
        link to the map:

        http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhistory/SEplot/SE0033Mar19T.gif

        A total solar eclipse visible in Syria (and a partial
        visible in Jerusalem) occurred on November 24, 29.
        Here is a map:

        http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhistory/SEplot/SE0029Nov24T-2.gif>

        Thanks for these links. I'm ever more impressed by
        what can be found on the internet.

        Jeffery Hodges

        =====
        Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges (Inv.) [Ph.D., U.C. Berkeley]
        Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
        447-791 Kyunggido, Osan-City
        Yangsandong 411
        South Korea

        __________________________________
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      • Steve Black
        Why are we assuming that this says anything about the date of the crucifixion? Is it not possible that the memory of an eclipse was conflated later with the
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 10, 2003
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          Why are we assuming that this says anything about the date of the
          crucifixion?
          Is it not possible that the memory of an eclipse was conflated later
          with the story of the crucifixion?

          Steve Black
          Vancouver School of Theology
          Vancouver, BC
          Canada
          ---
          Heretics have all the fun, that is until they get burnt at the stake...


          On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 05:21 PM, Horace Jeffery Hodges wrote:

          > Stephen C. Carlson wrote:
          >
          > <There was a total eclipe on March 19, 33, but it was
          > visible only in the southern Indian ocean. Here's a
          > link to the map:
          >
          > http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhistory/SEplot/SE0033Mar19T.gif
          >
          > A total solar eclipse visible in Syria (and a partial
          > visible in Jerusalem) occurred on November 24, 29.
          > Here is a map:
          >
          > http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhistory/SEplot/SE0029Nov24T-
          > 2.gif>
          >
          > Thanks for these links. I'm ever more impressed by
          > what can be found on the internet.
          >
          > Jeffery Hodges
          >
        • Horace Jeffery Hodges
          Steve Black wrote:
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 10, 2003
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            Steve Black wrote:

            <Why are we assuming that this says anything about the
            date of the crucifixion? Is it not possible that the
            memory of an eclipse was conflated later with the
            story of the crucifixion?>

            I can't speak for the others, but this was not my
            assumption. Rather, I was noting some of the flaws in
            using an eclipse to date the crucifixion since a solar
            eclipse cannot, ever, occur during Passover.

            Jeffery Hodges

            =====
            Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges (Inv.) [Ph.D., U.C. Berkeley]
            Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
            447-791 Kyunggido, Osan-City
            Yangsandong 411
            South Korea

            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
            http://shopping.yahoo.com
          • bobkaster
            Hello Steve, I remembered an old reference to an eclipse when Jesus died not being possible. Julius Africanus (A.D. 221) cited Thallus (A.D. 52
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 11, 2003
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              Hello Steve,
              I remembered an old reference to an eclipse when Jesus died not being
              possible. Julius Africanus (A.D. 221) cited Thallus' (A.D. 52
              non-Christian) explanation of the darkness as being caused by an
              eclipse. He argued that an eclipse is not possible during a full
              moon, and Passover always occurs during a full moon.


              http://www.synaxis.org/ecf/volume06/ECF06IIITHE_EXTANT_FRAGMENTS_OF_THE_F.htm

              XVIII.(8) On the Circumstances connected with our Saviour's Passion
              and His Life-giving Resurrection.

              On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the
              rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other
              districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book
              of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of
              the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day
              according to the moon, and the passion of our Saviour fails on the day
              before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when
              the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time
              but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last
              of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be
              supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the
              sun?

              Bob Kaster,
              White Lake, MI

              --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, Steve Black <sdblack@t...> wrote:
              > Why are we assuming that this says anything about the date of the
              > crucifixion?
              > Is it not possible that the memory of an eclipse was conflated later
              > with the story of the crucifixion?
              >
              > Steve Black
              > Vancouver School of Theology
              > Vancouver, BC
              > Canada
              > ---
              > Heretics have all the fun, that is until they get burnt at the stake...
              >
              >
              > On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 05:21 PM, Horace Jeffery Hodges wrote:
              >
              > > Stephen C. Carlson wrote:
              > >
              > > <There was a total eclipe on March 19, 33, but it was
              > > visible only in the southern Indian ocean. Here's a
              > > link to the map:
              > >
              > >
              http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhistory/SEplot/SE0033Mar19T.gif
              > >
              > > A total solar eclipse visible in Syria (and a partial
              > > visible in Jerusalem) occurred on November 24, 29.
              > > Here is a map:
              > >
              > > http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhistory/SEplot/SE0029Nov24T-
              > > 2.gif>
              > >
              > > Thanks for these links. I'm ever more impressed by
              > > what can be found on the internet.
              > >
              > > Jeffery Hodges
              > >
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