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Re: [XTalk] Sons of Thunder

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  • Frank McCoy
    ... Zeus seems tangentially related... ... Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power* (New York: Anchor, 2002), p. 110, the name of Carthage s
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 22, 2003
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      --- Horace Jeffery Hodges <jefferyhodges@...>
      wrote:
      > This is only tangentially related, but since even
      Zeus seems tangentially related...
      >
      > According to Victor Davis Hanson, *Carnage and
      Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western
      Power* (New York: Anchor, 2002), p. 110, the name of
      Carthage's brilliant military leader who annihilated
      the Roman forces at Cannae on August 2, 216 BCE,
      "Hannibal Barca," means "Grace of Ba'al Lightning."
      >
      >I mention this for what it's worth, though I doubt
      that it is related either, but if one wants to take
      lightning as meaning thunder, then "Sons of Thunder"
      could just as readily be an allusion to Hannibal, who
      defeated Rome, as to Zeus, who would more likely be a
      symbol for Rome and Roman power.
      >
      > But I consider both unlikely.
      >


      Dear Jeffery Hodges:

      Oh, Caananite/Punic ideas about Baal and his lightning
      might help us to understand the meaning of "Sons of
      Thunder", but this doesn't necessitate that "Sons of
      Thunder" has anything to do with Hannibal.

      Let us look at Ugaritic tablet V AB (IV) as rendered
      by Theodor H. Gaster in Thespis (p. 239), where Baal
      states:

      Yea, I, install'd as godhead of the North,
      will fashion now upon that hill of mine,
      a lightning such as heaven doth not know,
      a voice the like of which men do not know,
      greater than all mankind yet understand.

      Note that the thunder from the lightning of Baal is
      his voice.

      Compare LXX Psalm 28(29):3a, "The voice (phwne) of the
      Lord is upon the waters: the God of glory has
      thundered (ebrontese);..".

      Also compare John 12:28b-29a, "Then a voice (phwne)
      came from heaven, 'I have glorified it, and I will
      glorify it again.' The crowd, the one having stood
      and having heard, were saying, ''Thunder (Bronten) has
      happened.'"

      Is it not possible that, in Mark 3:17, "Sons of
      Thunder (Brontes)" ought to be interpreted in light of
      this Caananite-Jewish-early Christian idea of equating
      thunder with the voice of a deity? That is to say,
      might it not be possible that it can be paraphrased as
      "Sons of the Voice (of God)".

      Compare this statement by Robert H. Gundry in Mark
      (pp. 51-52), "Since Mark writes about a 'voice,' not
      about 'a daughter of the voice' (bath-qol, i.e., an
      echo of God's voice),...".

      Perhaps, then, "sons of thunder" = sons of God's
      Voice = echoes of God's voice.

      If so, then perhaps its meaning is that the two sons
      of Zebedee are prophets of God. Compare Heres (259),
      where Philo states, "For a prophet (being a spokesman)
      has no utterance of his own, but all his utterance
      came from elsewhere, the echoes of another's voice."

      Regards,

      Frank McCoy
      1809 N. English Apt. 15
      Maplewood, MN USA 55109


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