Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [XTalk] Anomalies vs. Miracles

Expand Messages
  • sdavies0
    ... I have run into athiests who fit Michael s definition. One such comes to most or all Jesus Seminar meetings. He s a member of the American Athiests society
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 2, 2003
      --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, "townsendgm" <townsendgm@c...>
      wrote:
      > I vehemently quarrel with Michael's assertion that
      > an atheist is COMMITTED TO A LACK OF BELIEF IN GODS.
      > Atheists, in my experience, have simply come to the conclusion,
      > after examining the available evidence, that gods do not exist.
      > (As opposed to the spineless agnostic, who acknowledges the
      > lack evidence of the existence of gods but lacks the courage to
      > draw the obvious conclusion.) To say that atheists are
      > "committed to a lack of belief" suggests that they are closed
      > minded and not receptive to any valid new evidence which might
      > suggest that gods DO exist, which simply is not the case.
      > Michael is, perhaps inadvertantly, making the (invalid) theist
      > assertion that atheism is just as much a matter of faith as is
      > theism. But faith has nothing to do with it. It's all about
      > evidence--or, in this case, the lack of evidence.

      I have run into athiests who fit Michael's definition. One such
      comes to most or all Jesus Seminar meetings. He's a member of the
      American Athiests society (I think that's the name) and he's a
      propagandist for their views. In fact, he's a proponent of the idea
      that not only is God a fiction, but also the HJ, which, when I knew
      him, I thought was nutty. Now, not. Indeed, I wonder if non-theist
      wouldn't be a better word for someone who has come simply to the
      conclusion you specify, reserving athiest for one who is committed
      to that view. Still, it's almost always a waste of time to try and
      revise the general language and we are presumably stuck with what we
      have. You are quite right, then, to point out that the term athiest
      does not necessarily have the connotation of commitment.

      Steve Davies
    • townsendgm
      ... ... conclusion, ... the ... to ... might ... member of the ... idea ... knew ... non-theist ... to the ... committed ... what we ... Guy
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 2, 2003
        --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, "sdavies0" <sdavies@m...>
        wrote:
        > --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, "townsendgm"
        <townsendgm@c...>
        > wrote:
        > > I vehemently quarrel with Michael's assertion that
        > > an atheist is COMMITTED TO A LACK OF BELIEF IN GODS.
        > > Atheists, in my experience, have simply come to the
        conclusion,
        > > after examining the available evidence, that gods do not exist.
        > > (As opposed to the spineless agnostic, who acknowledges
        the
        > > lack evidence of the existence of gods but lacks the courage
        to
        > > draw the obvious conclusion.) To say that atheists are
        > > "committed to a lack of belief" suggests that they are closed
        > > minded and not receptive to any valid new evidence which
        might
        > > suggest that gods DO exist, which simply is not the case.
        > > Michael is, perhaps inadvertantly, making the (invalid) theist
        > > assertion that atheism is just as much a matter of faith as is
        > > theism. But faith has nothing to do with it. It's all about
        > > evidence--or, in this case, the lack of evidence.
        >
        > I have run into athiests who fit Michael's definition. One such
        > comes to most or all Jesus Seminar meetings. He's a
        member of the
        > American Athiests society (I think that's the name) and he's a
        > propagandist for their views. In fact, he's a proponent of the
        idea
        > that not only is God a fiction, but also the HJ, which, when I
        knew
        > him, I thought was nutty. Now, not. Indeed, I wonder if
        non-theist
        > wouldn't be a better word for someone who has come simply
        to the
        > conclusion you specify, reserving athiest for one who is
        committed
        > to that view. Still, it's almost always a waste of time to try and
        > revise the general language and we are presumably stuck with
        what we
        > have. You are quite right, then, to point out that the term athiest
        > does not necessarily have the connotation of commitment.
        >
        > Steve Davies

        Guy responds:

        Indeed. John Ruskin's observations about "masked words" (in
        Sesame and Lilies") comes to mind.

        Guy M. Townsend
      • Horace Jeffery Hodges
        Guy M. Townsend wrote:
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 2, 2003
          Guy M. Townsend wrote:

          <Atheists, in my experience, have simply come to the
          conclusion, after examining the available evidence,
          that gods do not exist. (As opposed to the spineless
          agnostic, who acknowledges the lack evidence of the
          existence of gods but lacks the courage to draw the
          obvious conclusion.)>

          This would be a subset of atheists. Some folk are
          raised without religious views and are atheists by
          default rather than by reasoned, critical reflection.

          As for the "spineless agnostic," there are undoubtedly
          some (as there are 'spineless' of all sorts), but
          there are also principled agnostics.

          Jeffery Hodges

          =====
          Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges (Inv.) [Ph.D., U.C. Berkeley]
          Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
          447-791 Kyunggido, Osan-City
          Yangsandong 411
          South Korea

          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
          http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.