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Re: [XTalk] James ossuary determined "fake"- Frank Moore Cross concurs

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  • beefnboots
    As a follow-up, I am heartened to see that Frank Moore Cross, Jack s touchstone on this issue, has revised his opinion. Remarkably, that revised opinion
    Message 1 of 34 , Jul 1, 2003
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      As a follow-up, I am heartened to see that Frank Moore Cross, Jack's
      touchstone on this issue, has revised his opinion. Remarkably, that
      revised opinion matches the suspicions I've maintained since the BAR
      ran the original article by Lemaire.

      See the BAR "breaking news" page at
      http://bib-arch.org/bswbbreakingHSALFMC.html , where, in
      correspondence with Hershel Shanks dated June 26, Cross states,

      "You seem to be confused about my statement, "The same team of
      Israeli geologists declared both the Ossuary inscription and the
      Jehoash inscription authentic according to their tests of the patina
      on each. My perverse conclusion was that both were forgeries and I
      could no longer 'sit on the fence' in the matter of the ossuary
      inscription." I said nothing about "the conclusion of the 'Israeli
      geologists' that both inscriptions are forgeries"—to quote your
      letter. I referred to the original team of three who declared both
      were authentic. My logic seems clear to me. If the Jehoash
      inscription was a forgery and they declared it genuine, then their
      declaration that the ossuary inscription was genuine was suspect. The
      team was either incompetent or even in collusion with the forger. In
      any case there ceased to be credible scientific support of the
      authenticity of the ossuary inscription."

      The "team", being the first three geologists at GSI to pass on the
      ossuary, were "either incompetent or even in collusion with the
      forger."

      Heh...

      Yep... That's what I suspected as well.

      Best,

      Kelly Wellington
      Portland, Oregon




      --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, "beefnboots" <wellingk@o...> wrote:
      > --- In crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Kilmon" <jkilmon@h...>
      wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > I do not believe the IGS geologists were morons. I do not
      believe
      > the ROM
      > > analysts were blind. I do not believe a forger would use "chalk
      > soup."
      > > Have you not noticed that the only qualified palaeographers and
      > Aramaicists
      > > lean for authenticity and those issuing opinions on the
      > palaeography and
      > > Aramaic syntax are not even competent in 1st century Aramaic
      > dialects? This
      > > artifact needs to be placed in the hands of a group of
      independent
      > and
      > > qualified scientists whose first analysis will be to determine
      WHEN
      > that
      > > "chalk soup" was applied...probably AFTER the box left the ROM.
      > >
      > > Jack
      >
      > Well, Jack, if we are to believe the reports on the Jehoash Tablet,
      > I'm not too sure that the IGS geologists weren't morons. Vetting a
      > piece of Cypriot metamorphic rock as Palestinian sandstone is a
      huge
      > and egregious mistake for a geologist and strikes me as moronic. I
      > fully expect heads to roll at IGS over the IAA findings, where,
      > incidently, a more senior geologist from IGS agreed with the IAA
      > findings.
      >
      > Then, what's the IGS doing passing on the authenticity of an
      > antiquity when there's a more appropriate and more expert group of
      > specialists readily available? Why didn't it go to the IAA before
      it
      > was rushed out of Israel?
      >
      > I read the report as published in the BAR article, I challenged
      > factual aspects of it and I got a partial retraction from one of
      > the "geologists" that penned it. I note that that revision has
      never
      > seen publication.
      >
      > Y'know, Jack... I agree with you that something stinks, but it
      ain't
      > at IAA, it's at IGS.
      >
      > Lastly, your attitude, as expressed in this post is less than
      > professional. You claim to be a scientist...What kind? And, what
      > credentials?
      >
      > Kelly Wellington
      > Portland, Oregon
    • Mike Grondin
      ... Hey, hey, hey - don t bring me into it. I wrote one, maybe two, notes to XTalk when the thing was first announced and that was it. I haven t been following
      Message 34 of 34 , Jul 2, 2003
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        --- Michael Turton wrote:
        > Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Jack. Just a couple
        > of clarifications. Initially I had no "animus," the
        > Ossuary was an interesting fake for me until you,
        > Grondin and others on several forums began posting
        > gleeful posts using it to bash non-mainstream views.
        > Then I got motivated to follow it closely. So I'd like
        > to thank you and Mike for that; I learned quite a bit
        > and met some very interesting people along the way.

        Hey, hey, hey - don't bring me into it. I wrote one, maybe two,
        notes to XTalk when the thing was first announced and that was it. I
        haven't been following it with any avidity, don't care much about
        the end-result one way or the other, didn't even go to the Toronto
        presentation - though I was at the annual meeting. I do find the
        political interaction of the scientists fascinating, as well the
        public exposure of shoddy and hasty scientific "examinations".
        Mostly, though, I'm interested in the historical Jacob and the setup
        of the Jerusalem church, which is why I questioned you about your
        reasons for believing that Jacob wasn't the brother of Jesus. If
        it's just because of the Epistle of James not sounding at all like
        what a brother would write - well, that baffles me, too, if the
        letter is authentic. But Paul called him "the brother of the Lord",
        and Paul doesn't strike me as somebody who would've repeated a claim
        that would enhance the status of anyone above him in the hierarchy
        if he had any question about the truth of that claim. To say nothing
        of the possible embarassment for Matt and Luke of having to admit
        siblings for a virgin's child?

        Mike Grondin
        Mt. Clemens, MI
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