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Re: [XTalk] Re: Historical Joseph? (was: Bethlehem, Galilee?)

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  • Karel Hanhart
    ... From: To: Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:58 PM Subject: [XTalk] Re: Historical Joseph? (was:
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 9, 2003
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <mwgrondin@...>
      To: <crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:58 PM
      Subject: [XTalk] Re: Historical Joseph? (was: Bethlehem, Galilee?)

      > --- Karel Hanhart wrote:
      > > ... I too have pursued the Celsus legend that historically Jesus
      > > was a 'mamzer' and that his begetter was a Roman soldier.
      > > However, I abandoned the idea, because in Mark 6,3 persons
      > > HOSTILE to Jesus use the derogatory epithet: 'son of Mirjam'.
      > > ... In exegesis it is important to establish who is saying what
      > > and why.

      Mike Grondin answered
      > Sure. But if this was just a generic insult, why did Mark even
      > dignify it by alluding to it? You seem to suggest that he was in
      > fact committed to a virginal conception, but presented the idea so
      > subtly (via inference from the heavenly proclamation) that it went
      > unrecognized.

      No, Mike, I haven't suggested this at all. I have spent some 20 pages
      of my book (Open Tomb, pp 481-502) on the women at the
      tomb and offered my arguments why I believe we should
      translate Mk 15,47 as "Mary, the WIFE of Joseph" and not Mary, the MOTHER
      of Joseph". In other words Mark regarded Joseph to be Jesus' natural
      father. This natural interpretation - women were normally
      identified by the name of her husband - was rightly left open in the
      first Dutch Bible translation, the Statenvertaling. In other words,
      to Mark Mary and Joseph were wife and husband.
      However, in Mark's own post-70 days a polarization between some synagogues
      and ecclesia's had grown to such proportions that Jesus was either
      esteemed to have been inspired by the Spirit of God or by the devil;
      he was worshipped as the living Kurios or was cursed by such derogatory
      epithets as 'son of Mary', inspired by Beelzebul (3,22).
      One of the reasons why Matthew and Luke had their genealogy at
      the beginning of their Gospel is their clarification of Mark 6,3 which
      could easily give rise to misunderstanding. In their view the Spirit had
      Jesus even from the time of conception.



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