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Re: More Re: [XTalk] Violence

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  • Karel Hanhart
    ... David, We have indeed a different approach. I would defend that the Gospels and epistles had a Judean outlook. The subject matter was the divine dealings
    Message 1 of 104 , Aug 10, 2002
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      "David C. Hindley" wrote:

      > Karel wrote,
      >
      > >>However, sociologically your example of Hutu's and Tutsi's does not fit
      > the problem. I my answer
      > I referred to a polarization WITHIN the Judean nation around the year 70
      > between the Christian Jews and other Jewish factions, not between Jews and
      > Gentiles nor between the {mostly) Gentile Church and the Jews of the third
      > century onwards.<<
      >
      > We are apparently looking at this problem from two differing points of view.
      > I cannot escape the impression that the Christianity of the 2nd century has
      > a predominantly Gentile outlook.

      David,
      We have indeed a different approach. I would defend that the Gospels and epistles
      had
      a Judean outlook. The subject matter was the divine dealings with the people of
      Israel including the typically Judean messianic expectations. This 'Judean
      outlook' must have been prevalent., I believe, in the 2nd century as well.
      Although Gentiles were joining the movement in growing numbers, the LXX was still
      read and commented upon in the ecclesia and the subject matter referred to above
      was still the same. Historically we know very little about the second century, so
      one should exercise great caution in drawing conclusions concerning a radical
      revision of an earlier series of Gospels..

      > No, I was not suggesting the Christians (or messianic followers of Jesus)
      > controlled the city gates of Jerusalem. My comment was not stated as best it
      > could, I'm afraid. What I was implying was that the heart of these conflicts
      > was power plays by the parties involved. I *was* implying elsewhere in my
      > post that the followers of Jesus, if they were messianically oriented, may
      > have wanted to have their interests represented in the war once it broke
      > out.

      > If one has to define the spirituality of the Jesus' movement vis a vis the
      > Romens - always a
      > hazardous enterprise - one might qualify is as one of non-violent
      > resistance.<<

      > The problem here is that the gospel accounts are rhetorical works intended
      > to instill a perception about Jesus.

      Agreed

      > Since I see the gospels as functionally apologetic rather than instructive, my
      > expectation would be that the rhetoric they contain will be designed to dispel
      > and replace other,
      > "erroneous," perceptions about Jesus. I do not generally take statements
      > found in them at face value.

      Here we are parting ways. The Gospels were designed for public reading and
      instruction in the ecclesia's. One cannot deny, of course, they have apologetic
      features; but these were not purposely designed to convey "erroneous perceptions
      about Jesus" that go counter the original intention.

      cordially,

      Karel
    • Thomas G. Barnes
      I know this is off topic, however, during the past few days I noticed the discussion going on about the use of copyrighhted material. Anyway, my question is
      Message 104 of 104 , Nov 13, 2002
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        I know this is off topic, however, during the past few days I noticed the
        discussion going on about the use of copyrighhted material. Anyway, my
        question is this, how do I properly cite a web page I used information from
        in an academic paper. I am a student and an interested historical Jesus
        individual. I realize this is off topic so please send reply to me off the
        list.

        Thomas G. Barnes
        Philadelphia, PA
        Temple University
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