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Violence

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  • brmcc2000
    Regarding a) violence between Jesus people and (other) Jews, and b) the Talmud, the most curious thing in my eyes is that, as regards the root violence--that
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 23, 2002
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      Regarding a) violence between Jesus people and (other) Jews, and b)
      the Talmud, the most curious thing in my eyes is that, as regards the
      root violence--that done to Jesus--the Babylonian Talmud (B. Sanh 43a)
      records an older tradition that he was rightly put to death by the
      Jewish authorities, without even a mention of Roman participation!

      For convenient reference see Brown "Death" I, p.376.

      Brown's Jewish consultant, Rabbi B.L. Visotsky accepts this fact, see
      the footnote, 114.

      So also does Rabbi Marc Saperstein.

      The key for these two learned rabbis is the uncensored Munich ms.


      (J. Neusner says somewhere that this is the only surviving ms. with
      the complete text of the B. Talmud.)

      How could such a tradition have possibly emerged, and how did it find
      its way into the Talmud?

      Brian McCarthy
      Madison WI

      P.S. Also very curious: In the Middle Ages, the great Maimonides
      repeats this same position--i.e., no mention of any Roman
      participation, our people intervened before Jesus could do any harm,
      etc. (he makes Jesus, who is about to mislead the people, sound like
      Paul!)-- in his "Letter to Yemen" (See Twersky's "Maimonides Reader",
      1972)

      P.S. Saperstein, in the same lecture, mentions the Kabbalists who
      believed that "the souls of Jews derived from the Godhead, whereas
      those of the Gentiles came from a parallel, demonic realm of
      impurity". He then goes on to refer to 15th and 16th c. mss which
      give an original reading of the nativity, I quote, "The Kabbalists
      accepted the Christian claim that Jesus had no human father, but in
      place of the Holy Spirit they substituted Samael, the demonic
      embodiment of evil."

      And Kabbalistic ideas are not just an historic curiosity. You
      probably won't find them too easily in Internet 'Pop-Kab', but they
      were taken seriously upto quite recent times. And perhaps still are
      today in some quarters!
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