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Paul and Jesus' teaching

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  • brmcc2000
    This theme is probably pretty well worked out by now, but I did get an answer from my Paul scholar to my questions. It was brief and focused on a) a fact and
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 1, 2002
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      This theme is probably pretty well worked out by now, but I did get
      an answer from my Paul scholar to my questions. It was brief and
      focused on a) a fact and b) an implication.

      a) The fact he reported was that he knew of no one who had ever
      suggested that Paul had ensured that each of his churches was given
      firm possession of as much of Jesus' teachings as possible through
      providing each with a written version of them.
      [My comment: Fortunately Mt and Lk saw things otherwise.]

      b) The implication of this fact for him is the obvious one: that,
      while Paul was acquainted with some traditions of Jesus' teaching, he
      did not think it important that his churches be put in firm
      possession of the full body of Jesus' teachings.

      Which raises the question: what did Paul think his churches did need
      to live their lives of faith? His Gospel? His Gospel plus the
      Septuagint? His Gospel plus some (written) collection of key
      Septuagint passages?
      Brian McCarthy
      Madison WI
    • bjtraff
      ... I wonder why (b) does not include the qualification Jesus teachings *in writing*, since the conclusion found in (b) is based on an assumption rooted in
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 1, 2002
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        --- In crosstalk2@y..., "brmcc2000" <brmcc@c...> wrote:

        > a) The fact he reported was that he knew of no one who had ever
        > suggested that Paul had ensured that each of his churches was given
        > firm possession of as much of Jesus' teachings as possible through
        > providing each with a written version of them.
        > [My comment: Fortunately Mt and Lk saw things otherwise.]
        >
        >b) The implication of this fact for him is the obvious one: that,
        >while Paul was acquainted with some traditions of Jesus' teaching,
        >he did not think it important that his churches be put in firm
        >possession of the full body of Jesus' teachings.

        I wonder why (b) does not include the qualification "Jesus' teachings
        *in writing*, since the conclusion found in (b) is based on an
        assumption rooted in "no written version" of Jesus' teachings. After
        all, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 specifically tells us that Paul and others
        were passing on traditions (PARADOSEIS) both "word (of mouth) and by
        letter (LOGOU EITE DI EPISTOLHS HMWN). See also 1 Corinthians 11:2
        where Paul reminds the Corinthians of the teachings (PARADOSEIS) that
        he had "passed on" [to them]. Since he does not elaborate on the
        point, we can see from these passages that Paul believed not only in
        written instruction, but also oral teachings, something that makes a
        great deal of sense in a 1st Century setting.

        >Which raises the question: what did Paul think his churches did need
        >to live their lives of faith? His Gospel? His Gospel plus the
        >Septuagint? His Gospel plus some (written) collection of key
        >Septuagint passages?

        Based on 2 Thessalonians, together with passages like 1 Cor. 2:1-5, I
        would argue that he expected them to believe in the gospel he
        preached both orally and in his letters, and supported by appeals to
        his miracle working ability which he claimed came directly from God.

        In my own view, this preoccupation with a 21st Century need to "get
        it in writing" is out of place in the world in which Paul operated.
        He taught both through letters, and through oral traditions, and to
        ignore this fact is to miss a crucial element to Pauline (and other
        1st Century) thought, both Christian and non-Christian.

        Peace,

        Brian Trafford
        Calgary, AB, Canada
      • sdavies0
        Have you all noticed how the word teaching gets used in so many radically different ways here? A sentence about Paul conveying teaching implies, for some,
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 2, 2002
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          Have you all noticed how the word "teaching" gets used in so many
          radically different ways here? A sentence about Paul
          conveying "teaching" implies, for some, that he promulgates some
          sort of message-of-Jesus from the mouth of the Nazarene, for others
          it means that he "teaches" his own gospel which he got from A)God or
          B)Xians he persecuted. For others it means that Paul's teachings
          themselves became normative in some or many churches and were later
          incorporated into the teachings attributed to Jesus. I won't demand
          that everybody henceforth define their terms, but I hope that
          everybody will be a little more aware that claims
          regarding "teaching" vis a vis Paul or Jesus can mean a whole
          variety of things and if one wishes to communicate, i.e. teach (
          pace Bob S ), one should be somewhat careful to explain what one is
          talking about.

          Steve Davies
        • Bob Schacht
          ... Not guilty! :-) Or, what was the charge? In fact, one of the burdens under which attempts to understand Jesus teaching has labored is the lack of clarity
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 2, 2002
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            At 12:31 AM 7/3/2002 +0000, sdavies0 wrote:
            >Have you all noticed how the word "teaching" gets used in so many
            >radically different ways here? A sentence about Paul
            >conveying "teaching" implies, for some, that he promulgates some
            >sort of message-of-Jesus from the mouth of the Nazarene, for others
            >it means that he "teaches" his own gospel which he got from A)God or
            >B)Xians he persecuted. For others it means that Paul's teachings
            >themselves became normative in some or many churches and were later
            >incorporated into the teachings attributed to Jesus. I won't demand
            >that everybody henceforth define their terms, but I hope that
            >everybody will be a little more aware that claims
            >regarding "teaching" vis a vis Paul or Jesus can mean a whole
            >variety of things and if one wishes to communicate, i.e. teach ( pace Bob
            >S ),
            >one should be somewhat careful to explain what one is
            >talking about.
            >
            >Steve Davies

            Not guilty! :-)
            Or, what was the charge?
            In fact, one of the burdens under which attempts to understand Jesus'
            teaching has labored is the lack of clarity about the difference between
            Jesus' teachings, whatever they might have been, and his sayings in
            general. This stems, I think, from a Docetic view of Jesus, in which, as
            One who was One with God, Jesus was viewed as Omniscient, so that even if
            he said, "please pass the Ketchup" at dinner, one would assume that he was
            teaching something (please excuse the blatant anachronism). In my view,
            this is not helpful.

            I think it is more helpful to ask questions such as the following:
            * Did Jesus' contemporaries (i.e., people who, as adults, knew
            him) regard him as a teacher?
            * If so, what did it mean to them?
            * Did Jesus' contemporaries regard him as having a didache (teaching or
            doctrine?) If so, what did they think it was?
            * What were other people described as didaskolos and rabbi doing in
            Roman Judea and Galilee, and how did they do it, during Jesus' day? (this
            might cast light on the second bullet above.)
            We must also avoid rampant anachronism and ethnocentrism. To most people
            today, "teaching" means something done by a "teacher" in a "classroom." We
            are helped by that classroom thing, so that when Professor McCorkle is
            holding forth in the evening at the Boar's Head Tavern, we don't call that
            "teaching." Nor do we think he is teaching when we meet him by chance in
            the Grocery store and chat for a moment. But when he steps in front of the
            podium at 223 Schweitzer Hall at 9 AM in the John Dominic Crossan School of
            Religious Studies in the room scheduled for Religious Studies 353, you had
            better be ready to take notes, because you are about to be Taught. Even
            more, you had better have his textbook on the subject, in case you take bad
            lecture notes. I do not find it helpul to require that Jesus' teaching be
            held to this kind of standard.

            There will naturally be some difficulty here with Jesus, because he did not
            have a "classroom," there was not a class number or syllabus, and he was
            not a Member of the Faculty. Consequently conservative Christian circles,
            in trying to make sense of the fact that in all of the gospels he is
            addressed as "teacher," that Jesus WAS the Faculty (all of it, except maybe
            also J the B), and the classroom was anywhere he was. I don't find this
            approach very helpful, either.

            So, besides looking for the Authentic Sayings of Jesus, I want to know
            which of those sayings were regarded as teaching, and which were of the
            "Please pass the grits" stuff of daily non-teaching life.

            Furthermore, I want to know about forms of teaching as well as content, and
            other clues to when Jesus was in "teaching" mode, and when he wasn't.

            And I also want to know whether he also taught by deed as well as by word,
            and how that was recognized and understood.

            Your humble student,
            Bob
            Robert M. Schacht, Ph.D.
            Northern Arizona University
            Flagstaff, AZ

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • sdavies0
            ... Jesus ... between ... in ... which, as ... even if ... that he was ... view, ... I have tried to make the same point myself. If we take the turn the
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 3, 2002
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              --- In crosstalk2@y..., Bob Schacht <bobschacht@i...> wrote:

              > In fact, one of the burdens under which attempts to understand
              Jesus'
              > teaching has labored is the lack of clarity about the difference
              between
              > Jesus' teachings, whatever they might have been, and his sayings
              in
              > general. This stems, I think, from a Docetic view of Jesus, in
              which, as
              > One who was One with God, Jesus was viewed as Omniscient, so that
              even if
              > he said, "please pass the Ketchup" at dinner, one would assume
              that he was
              > teaching something (please excuse the blatant anachronism). In my
              view,
              > this is not helpful.

              I have tried to make the same point myself. If we take the "turn the
              other cheek" saying, as our text, then it may have been said at some
              particular point for some reason altogether lost. Or it may have
              been said to a particular sort of audience with a general
              application for members of that audience, e.g. destitute itinerants.
              But on the whole I think it is utterly wrong to think that Jesus'
              every utterance properly should be taken to apply to all humans at
              all times. But, as we see, this is often done.

              And it is easy to do, especially with Seminary training. Hobbled by
              the lack of same I will still venture to say that when Jesus
              said "please pass the Ketchup" we hear the voice of one who has
              humbled himself into the human form so that he does not force a
              miraculous Ketchup upon us but humbly begs for human Ketchup to be
              passed. His use of "please" is a particularly telling point, because
              we know from contemporary archaeological work that in his time and
              place the word "please" was used by Jews as a signifier or "word of
              politeness" initiating a formal request during mealtimes and
              elsewhere. The quoted "Ketchup saying" is very probably of the
              ipsissima verba (John Meier says so, as does N. T. Wright, two
              giants of scholarship) because it fits so well into the Lukan
              pattern of table fellowship which we know traces back to Jesus
              himself. This inference is confirmed by its coherence with the Q
              saying found only in Luke: "eat what is set before you." Note that
              we learn from Jesus that while we "eat what is set before us" even
              he shows us by his own example that we must call upon the assistance
              of others to improve that which we find before us. Through the
              assistance of others, by their provision of Ketchup, we can take
              what is set before us and make of it a better and more whole-some
              meal. We find Jesus opening up a world of sharing and world-
              improvement that lessons us to move out into the world and pour our
              Ketchup upon those affairs that are set before us, just as he did,
              with the help of those to whom he turned.

              > I think it is more helpful to ask questions such as the following:
              > * Did Jesus' contemporaries (i.e., people who, as adults, knew
              > him) regard him as a teacher?

              I do not think you can assume that if the Synoptics say so it was
              so. But the preservations of his sayings leads to legitimate
              inferences that for some reason what he said was considered quite
              significant.

              > * If so, what did it mean to them?

              I think we are safer if we just make up stuff for it to mean to us
              and then blithely attribute that to them. Based on thinking about
              Thomas sayings, synoptic ones, which are strikingly devoid of
              context, I have basically concluded that it is literally impossible
              to say what they meant originally. Hence, I would say, Mark comes up
              with the idea of giving them a context so that they can mean
              something. Which, as you know, is what Mark thinks they meant,
              rather than what Jesus or the audience thought.

              > * Did Jesus' contemporaries regard him as having a didache
              (teaching or
              > doctrine?) If so, what did they think it was?

              Here I must reiterate what I keep iterating and that is that the
              answer appears to be NO. Why? Because they (Mark, Thomas) insist
              even his most intimate followers didn't understand. Because they all
              felt free to make up things for him to teach. Because they, Paul,
              John, Hebrews, do not care enough about that teaching or doctrine to
              include it. The standard theory that he had a didache but it was
              essentially forgotten by the time we have any records of his stuff
              doesn't appeal.

              > * What were other people described as didaskolos and rabbi
              doing in
              > Roman Judea and Galilee, and how did they do it, during Jesus'
              day? (this
              > might cast light on the second bullet above.)

              Or not. We have a frightening tendency to fall into the "drunk under
              the streetlamp" fallacy, which is to look for our lost keys under
              the streetlamp because that's where the light is rather than look in
              the darker vicinity of the place we lost the keys. So we look for
              information from the writings of General - Priest Josephus or the
              Essene (Priestly?) collection from Qumran for the "how did they do
              it" of a Galilean peasant prophet because we have no good
              information about how Galilean peasant prophets did it.

              > We must also avoid rampant anachronism and ethnocentrism.

              Good idea. Can I include in "ethnocentrism" the notion that the
              Nazarene was a Judean?

              > To most people
              > today, "teaching" means something done by a "teacher" in
              a "classroom."

              I don't think this is true for HJ aficionados.

              > Consequently conservative Christian circles,
              > in trying to make sense of the fact that in all of the gospels he
              is
              > addressed as "teacher," that Jesus WAS the Faculty (all of it,
              except maybe
              > also J the B), and the classroom was anywhere he was. I don't find
              this
              > approach very helpful, either.

              Why do you write "conservative?" I think our liberals do exactly
              this.

              > So, besides looking for the Authentic Sayings of Jesus, I want to
              know
              > which of those sayings were regarded as teaching, and which were
              of the
              > "Please pass the grits" stuff of daily non-teaching life.

              But here you quote as authentic a non-canonical saying. In the canon
              it reads "Please pass the Ketchup" and not "Please pass the grits."
              It does us all a disservice, Bob, for you to bring into the
              discussion material that clearly is Gnostic and second or third
              century. Grits, as we know, are not a flavoring-device to improve
              the quality of the food set before us, as is Ketchup, but is an
              alternative food in and of itself. Jesus, in the saying you quote,
              is dissatisfied with his food and wants more or better food. But we
              know from the sayings in the Bible that he insisted that we should
              eat what is set before us. It does not say that we should demand
              other foods. Because of the verbal identity in the initiational
              phrase "Please pass theĀ…" we can tell that the variant with "grits"
              is dependent on the original "Ketchup," but changed in such a way as
              to reject this world, symbolized by the food upon which the Ketchup
              is to be poured, in favor of a different higher world symbolized by
              the term "grits," in a way typical of third century Gnosticism.

              > Furthermore, I want to know about forms of teaching as well as
              content, and
              > other clues to when Jesus was in "teaching" mode, and when he
              wasn't.
              > And I also want to know whether he also taught by deed as well as
              by word,
              > and how that was recognized and understood.
              >
              > Your humble student,

              Oh, you're not as humble as all that.

              Steve Davies
            • Frank McCoy
              ... (Steve Davies) ... (Frank McCoy) Who was a Galilean peasant prophet? Are you referring to Jesus the Nazorean? If so, what makes you sure he was a
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 3, 2002
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                --- sdavies0 <sdavies@...> wrote:
                > --- In crosstalk2@y..., Bob Schacht
                > <bobschacht@i...> wrote:
                >

                (Steve Davies)
                > Or not. We have a frightening tendency to fall into
                > the "drunk under
                > the streetlamp" fallacy, which is to look for our
                > lost keys under
                > the streetlamp because that's where the light is
                > rather than look in
                > the darker vicinity of the place we lost the keys.
                > So we look for
                > information from the writings of General - Priest
                > Josephus or the
                > Essene (Priestly?) collection from Qumran for the
                > "how did they do
                > it" of a Galilean peasant prophet because we have no
                > good
                > information about how Galilean peasant prophets did
                > it.

                (Frank McCoy)
                Who was a Galilean peasant prophet? Are you referring
                to Jesus the Nazorean? If so, what makes you sure he
                was a Galilean? If so, what makes you sure he was a
                peasant? If so, what makes you sure he was a prophet?


                (Bob Schacht)
                > > We must also avoid rampant anachronism and
                > ethnocentrism.

                (Steve Davies)
                > Good idea. Can I include in "ethnocentrism" the
                > notion that the
                > Nazarene was a Judean?

                (Frank McCoy)
                According to John 4:44-45, a prophet has no honor in
                his own country, but Jesus was greeted by the
                Galileans upon his arrival there after having come
                there from Judea by way of Samaria.

                What makes you sure, then, that the Nazorean was not a
                Judean?

                Frank McCoy
                1809 N. English Apt. 17
                Maplewood, MN USA 55109





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              • Frank McCoy
                I propose the hypothesis that there are two written sources for GTh. The first solely consists of free-standing sayings of Jesus: making it of the same genre
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 7, 2002
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                  I propose the hypothesis that there are two written
                  sources for GTh. The first solely consists of
                  free-standing sayings of
                  Jesus: making it of the same genre as the Nag Hammadi
                  text, The Sentences of
                  Sextus. The other consists of dialogues between Jesus
                  and others: making it
                  of the same genre as the Nag Hammadi texts, The
                  Apocryphon of James and The
                  Dialogue of the Savior.

                  I further propose that this is what comes from the
                  sayings document: Introduction,
                  1-5, 7-11, 15-17. 19, 23, 25-36, 38-42, 44-50, 54-59,
                  61a, 62-71, 73-78,
                  80-90, 92-98, 101-103, and 105-112; and that this is
                  what comes from the
                  dialogue document: 6, 12-14, 18, 20-22, 24, 37, 43,
                  51-53, 60, 61b, 72, 79,
                  91, 99-100, 104, and 113-114.

                  In "The Rhetoric of Marginality: Apocalypticism,
                  Gnosticism, and Sayings Gospels" (Harvard Theological
                  Review, 88:4, 1995), Bill Arnal postulates the
                  existence of two stratum in GTh. The earlier (see p.
                  478) is "the sapiential stratum" and it includes GTh
                  3.
                  5. 6. 9. 14. 16. 20. 26. 31, 32, 34-36, 42, 45, 47,
                  54, 55, 57, 63-65, 71, 74, 76, 89, 95-98, 107, 109,
                  and 110. The later (see p.479) is "the
                  gnostic-leaning stratum" and it includes Gth 11, 13,
                  15, 18, 21-22, 27-28, 49-50, 51, 60, 61, 83, 84, 101,
                  105, 108, 11, and 114. This is thirty-three logia for
                  the sapiential stratum and twenty logia for the
                  gnostic-leaning stratum--a ratio of 3.3/2.

                  There is a marked difference in the ratios between
                  the postulated sayings document (to be referred to as
                  the Thomas Saying Document or TSD) and the postulated
                  dialogue document (to be referred to as the Thomas
                  Dialogue Document or TDD).

                  In the postulated TSD, there are thirty logia which
                  come from
                  the postulated sapiential stratum (3, 5, 9, 16, 26,
                  31-32, 34-36, 42, 45,
                  47, 54-55, 57, 63-65, 71, 74, 76, 86, 89, 95-98, 107,
                  and 109-110) and
                  twelve logia which come from the postulated
                  gnostic-leaning stratum (11, 15,
                  27-28, 49-50, 83-84, 101, 105, 108, and 111). This is
                  a ratio of 3/1.2.

                  In the postulated TDD, there are three logia which
                  come from
                  the postulated sapiential stratum (6, 14, and 20) and
                  eight logia which come
                  from the postulated gnostic-leaning stratum (13, 18,
                  21-22, 51, 60, 61b, and
                  114). This is a ratio of 3/8.

                  The two ratios are radically different: with (1) the
                  postulated sayings
                  document have almost three times as many logia in the
                  postulated sapiential
                  stratum as in the postulated gnostic-leaning stratum,
                  but with (2) the
                  postulated dialogue document having almost three times
                  as many logia in the
                  postulated gnostic-leaning stratum as in the
                  postulated sapiential stratum.

                  These radically different ratios lend support to the
                  hypothesis that there
                  are two written sources for GTh: a sayings document
                  (TSD) and a dialogue
                  document (TDD).

                  Also, since the postulated TSD has a much higher
                  percentage of
                  material from the postulated earlier sapiential
                  stratum than does the
                  postulated TDD, this evidence is consistent with the
                  hypothesis that the postulated TSD was written earlier
                  than was
                  the postulated TDD.

                  Next, I propose the hypothesis that the postulated
                  TSD, which might be the earliest written source for
                  GTh, is divisible into two layers: an early layer and
                  a later layer. Further, the later layer was added to
                  the original document by block insertion of material,
                  so that the TSD consists of alternating blocks
                  of early and late material.

                  The hypothesised early version of the TSD, consisting
                  solely of the postulated early layer, will be referred
                  to as the Early Thomas Saying Document or ETSD.

                  For detecting possible blocks of early and late
                  material in the postulated
                  TSD, two methods of detection are used.

                  The first regards sayings from Arnal's postulated
                  sapiential layer of
                  tradition (to be referred to as S sayings) and sayings
                  from his postulated
                  gnostic-leaning layer of tradition (to be referred to
                  as G sayings).

                  It will be assumed that S sayings will tend to be
                  found in the early layer
                  blocks, while G sayings will tend to be found in the
                  late layer blocks.

                  The second regards the Jesus Seminar's grading of the
                  sayings in GTh as
                  recorded in their The Five Gospels.

                  It will be assumed that sayings they designate as
                  wholly black (to be
                  referred to as B sayings) will tend to be found in the
                  late layer blocks,
                  while sayings they designate wholly or in part either
                  pink or red (to be
                  referred to as P sayings) will tend to be found in the
                  early layer blocks.

                  When the postulated TSD is analyzed this way, it can
                  be divided
                  into postulated early and late blocks of material as
                  follows:

                  1. A late block of material: The Introduction and
                  saying 1. One B saying
                  (1) and no S, G, or P sayings..

                  2. An early block of material: Sayings 2-10. One B
                  saying (7) and four P
                  sayings (2.5.9.10), three S sayings (3.5.9) and no G
                  sayings.

                  3. A late block of material: Sayings 11-30. One P
                  sayings (26), ten B
                  sayings (11.15.16.17.19.23.27.28.29.30), two S sayings
                  (16 and 26), and four
                  G sayings (11,15.27.28).

                  4. An early block of material: Sayings 31-48. Nine P
                  sayings
                  (31,32,33,35,36,39,41,45,47), two B sayings (38, 44),
                  seven S sayings
                  (31,32,34.36.42.45,47), and no G sayings.

                  5. A late block of material: Sayings 49-59. One P
                  saying (54), five B
                  sayings (49,50,56,58,59), three S sayings (54,55,57),
                  and two G sayings
                  (49,50).

                  6. An early block of material: Sayings 61-65. Four P
                  sayings (62,63,64,65),
                  no B sayings, three S sayings (63,64,65), and no G
                  sayings.

                  7. A late block of material: Sayings 66-88. Four P
                  sayings (69,76,78,86), 14
                  B sayings (66,67,70,71,73,74,75,77,80,83,84,85,87,88),
                  four S sayings
                  (71,74,76,86), and two G sayings (83,84).

                  8. An early block of material: Sayings 89-98. Seven P
                  sayings
                  (89,92,94,95,96,97,98), one B saying (90), five S
                  sayings (89,95,96,97,98),
                  and no G sayings.

                  9. A late block of material: Sayings 101-112. One P
                  saying (109), seven B
                  sayings (101,102,105,108,110,111,112), and four G
                  sayings (101,105,108,111).

                  The net tallies for the postulated early blocks of
                  material are: 24 P
                  sayings, four B sayings, 18 S sayings, and no G
                  sayings.

                  The net tallies for the postulated late blocks of
                  material are: 7 P sayings,
                  37 B sayings, 12 S sayings, and 12 G sayings.

                  In any event, here is the text of the hypothesised
                  Early Thomas Saying
                  Document (ETSD), consisting of the postulated early
                  layer of the postulated
                  TSD--which hypothesised ETSD is my current best guess
                  as to what constitutes
                  the earliest material in GTh:

                  2. Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking
                  until he finds. When he
                  finds he will become troubled. When he becomes
                  troubled, he will be
                  astonished, and he will rule over the All."
                  3. Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you,
                  'See, the Kingdom is in
                  the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
                  If they say to you,
                  'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
                  Rather the Kingdom is
                  inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you
                  come to know yourselves,
                  then you will become known, and you will realize that
                  is is you who are the
                  sons of the living Father. But if you will not know
                  yourselves, you dwell
                  in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
                  4.Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate
                  to ask a small child
                  seven days old about the place of life, and he will
                  live. For many who are
                  first will become last, and they will become one and
                  the same."
                  5.Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and
                  that which is hidden
                  from you will become plain to you. For there is
                  nothing hidden which will
                  not become manifest."
                  7.Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man
                  when consumed by man;
                  and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the
                  lion becomes man."
                  8. And he said, "The man is like a wise fisherman who
                  cast his net into the
                  sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish.
                  Among them the wise
                  fisherman found a fine large fish. He threw all the
                  small fish back into the
                  sea and chose the large fish without difficulty.
                  Whoever has ears to hear,
                  let him hear."
                  9. Jesus said, "Now the sower went out, took a handful
                  (of seeds), and
                  scattered them. Some fell on the road; the birds came
                  and gathered them up.
                  Others fell on rock, did not take root in the soil,
                  and did not produce
                  ears. And others fell on thorns; they choked the
                  seed(s) and worms ate
                  them. And others fell on the good soil and produced
                  good fruit: it bore
                  sixty per measure and a hundred and twenty per
                  measure."
                  10. Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and
                  see, I am guarding it
                  until it blazes."
                  31. Jesus said, "No prophet is accepted in his own
                  village; no physician
                  heals those who know him."
                  32. Jesus said, "A city built on a high mountain and
                  fortified cannot fall,
                  nor can it be hidden."
                  33. Jesus said, "Preach from your housetops that which
                  you hear hear in your
                  ear (and) in the other ear. For no one lights a lamp
                  and puts it under a
                  bushel, nor does he put it in a hidden place, but
                  rather he sets it on a
                  lampstand so that everyone who enters and leaves will
                  see its light."
                  34. Jesus said, "If a blind man leads a blind man,
                  they will both fall into
                  a pit."
                  35. Jesus said, "It is not possible for anyone to
                  enter the house of a
                  strong man and take it by force unless he binds his
                  hands; then he will (be)
                  able to ransack his house."
                  36. Jesus said, "Do not be concerned from morning
                  until evening and from
                  evening until morning about what you will wear."
                  38.Jesus said, "Many times have you desired to hear
                  these words which I am
                  saying to you, and you have no one else to hear them
                  from. There will be
                  days when you will look for Me and will not find Me."
                  39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scribes have
                  taken the keys of
                  Knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not
                  entered, nor have they
                  allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be
                  as wise as serpents
                  and as innocent as doves."
                  40. Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted outside
                  of the Father, but
                  being unsound, it will be pulled up by its roots and
                  destroyed."
                  41. Jesus said, "Whoever has something in his hand
                  will receive more, and
                  whoever has nothing will be dprived of even the little
                  he has."
                  42. Jesus said, "Become passers-by."
                  44.Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father
                  will be forgiven, and
                  whoever blasphemes against the Son will be forgiven,
                  but whoever blasphemes
                  against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either on
                  earth or in heaven."
                  45. Jesus said, "Grapes are not harvested from thorns,
                  nor are figs gathered
                  from thistles, for they do not produce fruit. A good
                  man brings forth good
                  from his storehouse; and evil man brings forth evil
                  things from his evil
                  storehouse, which is in his heart, and says evil
                  things. For out of the
                  abundance of the heart he brings forth evil things."
                  46. Jesus said, "Among those born of women, from Adam
                  until John the
                  Baptist, there is no one so superior to John the
                  Baptist that his eyes
                  should not be lowered (before) him. Yet I have said,
                  whichever one of you
                  comes to be a child, will be acquainted with the
                  Kingdom and will become
                  superior to John."
                  47. Jesus said, "It is impossible for a man to mount
                  two horses or to
                  stretch two bows. And it is impossible for a servant
                  to serve two masters;
                  otherwise he will honor the one and treat the other
                  contemptuously. No man
                  drinks old wine and immediately desires to drink new
                  wine. And new wine is
                  not put into old wineskins, lest they burst; nor is
                  old wine put into a new
                  wineskin, let it spoil it. An old patch is not sewn
                  into a new garment,
                  because a tear would result."
                  48. Jesus said, "If two make peace with each other in
                  this one house, they
                  will say to the mountain, 'Move away,' and it will
                  move away."
                  61a. Jesus said, "Two will rest on a bed: the one will
                  die and the other
                  will live."
                  62.Jesus said, "It is those [who are worthy of My]
                  mysteries that I tell my
                  mysteries. Do not let your left hand know what your
                  right hand is doing."
                  63. Jesus said, "There was a rich man who had much
                  money. He said, "I shall
                  put my money to use so that I may sow, reap, plant,
                  and fill my storehouse
                  with produce, with the result that I shall lack
                  nothing.' Such were his
                  intentions, but that same night he died. Let him who
                  has ears hear."
                  64. Jesus said, "A man had received visitors. And
                  when he had prepared the
                  dinner, he sent his servant to invite the guests. He
                  went to the first one
                  and said to him, 'My master invites you.' He said, 'I
                  have claims against
                  some merchants. They are coming to me this evening.
                  I must go and give
                  them my orders. I ask to be excused from the dinner.'
                  He went to another
                  and said to him, 'My master has invited you.' He said
                  to him, 'My friend is
                  going to get married, and I am to prepare the banquet.
                  I shall not be able
                  to come. I ask to be excused from the dinner.' He
                  went to another and said
                  to him, 'My master invites you.' He said to him, 'I
                  have just bought a
                  farm, and I am on my way to collect the rent. I shall
                  not be able to come.
                  I ask to be excused.' The servant returned and said
                  to his master, 'Those
                  whom you invited to the dinner have asked to be
                  excused.' The master said to
                  his servant, 'Go outside to the streets and bring back
                  those whom you happen
                  to meet, so that they may dine.' Businessmen and
                  merchants will not enter
                  the Places of My Father.'"
                  65. He said, "There was a good man who owned a
                  vineyard. He leased it to
                  tenant farmers so that they might work it and he might
                  collect the produce
                  from them. He sent his servant so that the tenants
                  might give him the
                  produce of the vineyard. They seized his servant and
                  beat him, all but
                  killing him. The servant went back and told his
                  master. The master said,
                  'Perhaps <they> did not recognize <him>.' He sent
                  another servant. The
                  tenants beat this one as well. Then the owner sent
                  his son and said,
                  'Perhaps they will show respect to my son.' Because
                  the tenants knew that
                  it was he who was the heir to the vineyard, they
                  seized him and killed him.
                  Let him who has ears hear."
                  89. Jesus said, "Why do you wash the outside of the
                  cup? Do you not realize
                  that he who made the inside is the same one who made
                  the outside?"
                  90. Jesus said, "Come unto me, for My yoke is easy and
                  My lordship is mild,
                  and you will find repose for yourselves."
                  92.Jesus said, "Seek and you will find. Yet, what you
                  asked Me about in
                  former times and which I did not tell you then, now I
                  do desire to tell, but
                  you do not inquire after it. 93. Do not give what is
                  holy to dogs, lest
                  they throw them on the dung-heap. Do not throw the
                  pearls to swine, lest
                  they grind it [to bits]."
                  94. Jesus [said], "He who seeks will find, and [he who
                  knocks] will be let
                  in."
                  95. [Jesus said,], "If you have money, do not lend it
                  at interest, but give
                  [it] to one from whom you will not get it back."
                  96. Jesus [said], "The Kingdom of the Father is like a
                  certain woman. She
                  took a little leaven, [concealed] it in some dough,
                  and made it into large
                  loaves. Let him who has ears hear."
                  97. Jesus said, "The kingdom of the [Father] is like a
                  certain woman who was
                  carrying a jar full of meal. While she was walking
                  [on] a road, still some
                  distance from home, the handle of the jar broke and
                  the meal emptied out
                  behind her on the road. She did not ralize it; she
                  had noticed no accident.
                  When she reached her house, she set the jar down and
                  found it empty,"
                  98. Jesus said, "The Kingdom of the Father is like a
                  certain man who wanted
                  to kill a powerful man. In his own house he drew his
                  sword and stuck it
                  into the wall in order to find out whether his hand
                  could carry through.
                  Then he slew the powerful man."

                  Frank McCoy
                  1809 N. English Apt. 17
                  Maplewood, MN USA 55109





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                • goranson@duke.edu
                  Perhaps you would be interested in an article in the latest Vigiliae Christianae which presents several possible schemes for the growth of Gospel of Thomas.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 8, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Perhaps you would be interested in an article in the latest Vigiliae
                    Christianae which presents several possible schemes for the growth of
                    Gospel of Thomas.

                    best,
                    Stephen Goranson
                    goranson@...
                  • Frank McCoy
                    ... Dear Stephen Goranson: Thank you! This is a most informative article. It has helped me to develop yet another possible early version of GTh, a
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 16, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- goranson@... wrote:
                      > Perhaps you would be interested in an article in the
                      > latest Vigiliae
                      > Christianae which presents several possible schemes
                      > for the growth of
                      > Gospel of Thomas.
                      >

                      Dear Stephen Goranson:

                      Thank you! This is a most informative article.

                      It has helped me to develop yet another possible early
                      version of GTh, a Proto-Thomas text, which is outlined
                      below.

                      DEFINITIONS

                      There are certain terms used in this post that should
                      be defined for purposes of clarity.

                      1. Unit = a numbered division of GTh, of which there
                      are 114. It is assumed that this strictly modern
                      numbering system accurately reflects the individual
                      units of GTh as conceived by its author(s).

                      2. Saying Unit = a unit in which only Jesus speaks

                      3. Dialogue Unit = a unit in which, besides Jesus, one
                      or more other people also speak.

                      4. Section = a sequence of an odd number of units: (a)
                      that is symmetrical, so that the two end units of a
                      sequence will always be of the same type and (b) in
                      which the two end units belong to a different type of
                      unit than the center unit (i.e., if the two end units
                      are saying units, then the center unit is a dialogue
                      unit, and if the two end units are dialogue units,
                      then
                      the center unit is a saying unit).

                      5. Special Unit = a unit that is one of the end or
                      center units of a section

                      A PROPOSAL

                      It is proposed that there was an earlier version of
                      GTh. a Proto-Thomas, consisting of these three
                      sections:

                      Section 1 GTh 2-10

                      Section 2 GTh 31-48 and 61-65 and 89-90.

                      Section 3 GTh 91-99

                      REASONS FOR THINKING THIS LIKELY WAS A REAL DOCUMENT

                      There are two basic reasons for thinking that the
                      postulated Proto-Thomas likely was a real document.
                      The first basic reason is that it appears to have
                      internal organization. The second basic reason is
                      that, it appears, the units in it are, on the average,
                      of earlier origin than the rest of the units in
                      GTh--which is what we would expect it it consists of
                      the part of GTh first written down.

                      INTERNAL ORGANIZATION--PART I

                      Where s = saying unit and d = dialogue unit and a
                      capitalized s (i.e. S) or a capitalized d (i.e., D) =
                      a special unit, this is how each of the three
                      proposed sections looks:

                      1. 2-10: SsssDsssS

                      2. 31-48, 61-65, 89-90:
                      SsssssdsssssDsssssdsssssS

                      3. 91-99: DsssSsssD

                      Note that, if the center special unit be treated as a
                      mirror plane, then each of these three sections
                      displays mirror symmetry.

                      Note, too, that each section consists of a square
                      number of units. Thus, sections 1 and 3 each consist
                      of 9 units--and 3x3 = 9. Again, section 2 consists of
                      25 units--and 5x5 = 25.

                      Indeed, this does not appear to be coincidence: for
                      each of the 3x3 sections consists of three groups,
                      with each of the three groups consisting of three
                      units. So, in section 1, there are two sss groups and
                      the remainding units (2S and 1D) constitute a third
                      group of three units. Again, in section 3, there are
                      two sss groups and the remaining units (2D and 1S)
                      constitute a third group of three units.

                      Further, section 2, the 5x5 section, consists of five
                      groups, with each of the five groups consisting of
                      five units. So, it contains four sssss groups and the
                      remaining units (2S, 2d, and 1D) constitute a fifth
                      group of five units.

                      Note that, while section one is symmetrical, and while
                      section three is symmetrical, and while both are of
                      the same length, they are, as respects their special
                      units, in an oppositional type of relationship:
                      1. SsssDsssS
                      3. DsssSsssD

                      In any event, the highly organized mirror symmetrical
                      arrangement to each of the three sections of the
                      proposed Proto-Thomas is evidence which supports
                      the hypothesis that this proposed document really did
                      exist.

                      INTERNAL ORGANIZATION--PART II

                      There is evidence of a symmetrical relationship
                      between the beginning SsssD
                      sequence of the proposed Proto-Thomas (i.e., GTh 2-6)
                      and the ending SsssD
                      sequence of it (i.e., GTh 95-99).

                      GTh 2-6 reads, "2. Jesus said, "Let him who seeks
                      continue seeking until he finds. When he finds he
                      will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he
                      will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."
                      3. Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you,
                      'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of
                      the sky will precede you. If they say to you,
                      'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
                      Rather the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside
                      of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you
                      will become known, and you will realize that is is you
                      who are the sons of the living Father. But if you
                      will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it
                      is you who are that poverty." 4.Jesus said, "The man
                      old in days will not hesitate to ask a small child
                      seven days old about the place of life, and he will
                      live. For many who are first will become last, and
                      they will become one and the same." 5.Jesus said,
                      "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is
                      hidden from you will become plain to you. For there
                      is nothing hidden which will not become manifest." 6.
                      "His disciples questioned Him and said to Him, 'Do You
                      want us to fast? How shall we pray? Shall we give
                      alms? What diet shall we observe?' Jesus
                      said, 'Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
                      for all things are plain in the sight of heaven. For
                      nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing
                      covered will remain without being uncovered.'"

                      GTh 95-99 reads, "95. [Jesus said,] "If you have
                      money, do not lend it at interest, but give [it] to
                      one from whom you will not get it back." 96. Jesus
                      [said], "The Kingdom of the Father is like a certain
                      woman. She took a little leaven, [concealed] it in
                      some dough, and made it into large loaves. Let him
                      who has ears hear." 97. Jesus said, "The kingdom of
                      the [Father] is like a certain woman who was
                      carrying a jar full of meal. While she was walking
                      [on] a road, still some distance from home, the handle
                      of the jar broke and the meal emptied out behind her
                      on the road. She did not ralize it; she had noticed
                      no accident. When she reached her house, she set the
                      jar down and found it empty," 98. Jesus said, "The
                      Kingdom of the Father is like a certain man who wanted
                      to kill a powerful man. In his own house he drew his
                      sword and stuck it into the wall in order to find out
                      whether his hand could carry through. Then he slew the
                      powerful man." 99. The disciples said to Him, "Your
                      brothers and your mother are standing outside." He
                      said to them, "These here who do the will of my Father
                      are My brothers and My mother. It is they who will
                      enter the Kingdom of My Father."

                      Note that 5 and 95 are clearly related: for both
                      include the topic of alms-giving. Note, too, that we
                      do not have the out-right rejection of alms-giving
                      that is reflected in GTh 14--which is one of the units
                      belonging to the proposed later additions to the
                      proposed Proto-Thomas.

                      Note that 96-99 regard the Kingdom: with 96-98 being
                      three parables of the Kingdom and 99 being an
                      admonition about the type of people who will
                      enter the Kingdom. Note, too, that 99, where the
                      brothers of Jesus are treated harshly, strongly
                      contrasts with the outright adulation of James the
                      Just (a brother of Jesus) in GTh 12--which is one of
                      the units belonging to the proposed later additions to
                      the proposed Proto-Thomas.

                      In this regard, it is possible that 2-5 also regard
                      the Kingdom. This is explicitly the case for 3, which
                      describes how the Kingdom is both outside of you and
                      inside of you. In 2, what is to be sought and found
                      might be the Kingdom. In 4, the place of life might
                      be the Kingdom as something outside you. In 5, the
                      hidden that will become plain might be the Kingdom as
                      something hid inside of you.

                      To conclude, 2-6, the beginning to the proposed
                      Proto-Thomas, might have a relationship to 95-99, the
                      ending to the proposed Proto-Thomas: with 6 relating
                      to 95 because both mention alms-giving and with 2-5
                      relating to 96-99 because these units might all regard
                      the Kingdom. With the units mentioning alms-giving
                      designated A and the other units designated B, this
                      is the relationship: BBBBA ABBBB

                      Such a possible mirror symmetrical relationship
                      between the beginning and the ending of the proposed
                      Proto-Thomas increases the likelihood that it is
                      a real document.

                      INTERNAL ORGANIZATION--PART III

                      After deleting the above discussed 2-6 and 95-99, the
                      remaining units of the proposed Proto-Thomas (i.e.,
                      7-10, 31-48, 61-65, and 89-94) have this arrangement:
                      sssSSsssssdsssssDsssssdsssssSDsss.

                      Let us look at the three S units in this sequence.
                      The first is 10, "Jesus said, 'I have cast fire upon
                      the earth, and see, I am guarding it until it
                      blazes.'" The second is 31, "Jesus said, "No prophet
                      is accepted in his own village; no physician heals
                      those who know him.'" The third is 90, "Jesus
                      said, 'Come unto me, for My yoke is easy and My
                      lordship mild, and you will find repose for
                      yourselves.'"

                      All three of the S units appear to regard Jesus. This
                      is clearly the case for 10 and 90. This is probably
                      the case for 31. So, in Mark 6:4, Jesus applies this
                      saying to himself. Again, in John 4:44, it is assumed
                      that this saying applies to Jesus.

                      This is remarkable, for, of the 26 s units, only 5
                      (roughly, 20%) appear to regard Jesus, i.e., 38, 44
                      (if the Son be understood to be Jesus), 62, 65 (if the
                      son of the vineyard owner be understood to be Jesus),
                      and 92.

                      This suggests that it is no accident that the 3 S
                      units in the postulated Proto-Thomas in the zone from
                      7 to 94 all appear to regard Jesus. As a result, this
                      is evidence which supports the hypothesis that the
                      postulated Proto-Thomas was a real document.

                      Again, let us look at the four dialogue (i.e., d and
                      D) units. The first is 37, "His disciples said,
                      'When will you become revealed to us and
                      when shall we see You?' Jesus said, 'When you disrobe
                      without being ashamed and take up your garments and
                      place them under your feet like little children and
                      tread on them, then [will you see] the Son of the
                      Living One and you will not be afraid.'" The second
                      is 43, "His disciples said to him, 'Who are You, that
                      You should say these things to us?' 'You do not
                      realize who I am from what I say to you, but you have
                      become like the Jews, for they (either) love the tree
                      and hate its fruit (or) love the fruit and hate the
                      tree.'" The third is 61, "Jesus said, 'Two will rest
                      on a bed: the one will die and the other will live.'
                      Salome said, 'Who are You, man, that You, as
                      though from the One, have come up on my couch and
                      eaten from my table?' Jesus said to her, 'I am He who
                      exists from the Undivided. I was given some of the
                      things of my Father.' 'I am your disciple.'
                      'Therefore I say, if he is <undivided>, he will be
                      filled with light, but if he is divided, he will be
                      filled with darkness.'" The fourth is 91, "They
                      said to Him, 'Tell us who You are so that we may
                      believe in You.' He said to them, 'You read the
                      face of the sky and of the earth, but you have not
                      recognized the one who (or: that which) is before you,
                      and you do not know how to read this moment.'"

                      As can be seen, each of these discourse units contains
                      a request to Jesus, by one or more of his disciples,
                      for him to provide knowledge regarding himself.

                      This is remarkable, for none of the other 20 discourse
                      units in GTh contain a request to Jesus, by one or
                      more of his disciples, for him to provide knowledge
                      regarding himself.

                      This suggests that it is no accident that the four
                      discourse units in the postulated Proto-Thomas in the
                      zone from 7 to 94 all regard a request to Jesus, by
                      one or more of his disciples, for him to provide
                      knowledge about himself. As a result, this is
                      evidence which supports the hypothesis that the
                      postulated Proto-Thomas was a real document.

                      EVIDENCE OF EARLY ORIGIN: PART I

                      If the postulated Proto-Thomas is real, then, as it is
                      postulated to be the early version of GTh, there
                      should be evidence that its units, on the average, are
                      earlier than the units in the proposed later
                      additions. (Note: these proposed later additions are:
                      Introduction-1, 11-30, 49-60, 66-88, and 100-114).

                      Indeed, such is the case.

                      For example, let us take the Jesus Seminar's grading
                      of the sayings in GTh as recorded in their The Five
                      Gospels--where grades range from black (almost
                      certainly not genuine) to red (almost certainly
                      genuine).

                      It will be assumed that sayings of Jesus they
                      designate as wholly black (to be referred to as B
                      sayings) will, on average, be later in origin than
                      sayings they designate to be wholly or in part either
                      pink or red (to be referred to as P sayings).

                      Of the 43 units in the proposed Proto-Thomas, there
                      are 26 that contain P sayings (2, 5, 6, 9, 10, 31, 32,
                      33, 35, 36, 39, 41, 45, 47, 62, 63, 64, 65 89, 92,
                      94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99) and 6 that contain B sayings
                      (7, 37, 38, 43, 44, 90)

                      Conversely, of the 71 units in the proposed later
                      additions to Proto-Thomas, there are 47 that contain B
                      sayings (1, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 23, 27,
                      28, 29, 30, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 56, 58, 59, 60, 66,
                      67, 69, 70, 71, 73, 74, 75, 77, 80, 83, 84, 85, 87,
                      88, 101, 102, 104, 105, 108, 110, 111, 112, 114) and
                      10 that contain P sayings (14, 20, 26, 54, 69, 76, 86,
                      100, 109, 113).

                      So, this does suggest that, on the average, the
                      sayings attributed to Jesus in the proposed
                      Proto-Thomas are significantly earlier in origin than
                      the
                      sayings attributed to Jesus in the proposed later
                      additions to Proto-Thomas--just as one would expect if
                      Proto-Thomas was a real document.

                      EVIDENCE OF EARLY ORIGIN: PART II

                      In "The Rhetoric of Marginality: Apocalypticism,
                      Gnosticism, and Sayings Gospels" (Harvard Theological
                      Review, 88:4, 1995), Bill Arnal postulates the
                      existence of two stratum in GTh. The earlier (see p.
                      478) is "the sapiential stratum" and it includes GTh
                      3. 5. 6. 9. 14. 16. 20. 26. 31, 32, 34-36, 42, 45,
                      47, 54, 55, 57, 63-65, 71, 74, 76, 89, 95-98, 107,
                      109, and 110. The later (see p.479) is "the
                      gnostic-leaning stratum" and it includes Gth 11, 13,
                      15, 18, 21-22, 27-28, 49-50, 51, 60, 61, 83, 84, 101,
                      105, 108, 11, and 114.

                      In the proposed Proto-Thomas, the proposed earlier
                      Sapiential sayings are more highly represented than
                      the proposed later Gnostic-leaning sayings: with 20
                      Sapiential sayings (3, 5, 6, 9, 31, 32, 34, 35, 36,
                      42, 45, 47, 63, 64, 65, 89, 95, 96, 97, 98) and one
                      Gnostic-leaning saying (61).

                      Conversely, in the proposed later additions to
                      Proto-Thomas, the proposed later Gnostic-leaning
                      sayings are more highly represented than the proposed
                      earlier Sapiential sayings: with 19 Gnostic-leaning
                      sayings (11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 22, 27, 28, 49, 50, 51,
                      60, 83, 84, 101, 105, 108, 111, 114) and 13 Sapiential
                      sayings (14, 16, 20, 26, 54, 55, 57, 76, 85, 86, 107,
                      109, 110).

                      Again, this is an indication that, on the average, the
                      sayings attributed to Jesus in the proposed
                      Proto-Thomas are of significantly earlier origin than
                      the sayings attributed to Jesus in the proposed later
                      additions to this Proto-Thomas--just as one would
                      expect if Proto-Thomas was a real document.

                      EVIDENCE OF EARLY ORIGIN: PART III

                      In "The Original Gospel of Thomas" (Vigiliae
                      Christianae, LVI: 2, 2002, pp. 167-199), A. D.
                      DeConick postulates that there was an early edition of
                      GTh he calls the kernel gospel.

                      Of the 114 units in GTh, he suggests that 60 were
                      wholly present in the postulated kernel gospel. Of
                      these 60, 34 are present in the postulated
                      Proto-Thomas (2, 5, 8, 9, 10, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36,
                      39, 40, 41, 42, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 62, 63, 65, 89,
                      90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99) and 26 are not
                      (15, 17, 20, 25, 26, 30, 54, 55, 57, 58, 66, 71, 72,
                      73, 74, 76, 78, 79, 81, 82, 86, 102, 103, 104, 107,
                      109).

                      Of the 114 units in GTh, he suggests that 16 were
                      partially present in the postulated kernel gospel. Of
                      these 16, five are present in the postulated
                      Proto-Thomas (4, 6, 38, 61, 64) and 11 are not (11,
                      14, 16, 21, 23, 24, 60, 68, 69, 100, 111).

                      Of the 114 units in GTh, he suggests that 38 were
                      completely absent from the postulated kernel gospel.
                      Of these 38, four are in the postulated Proto-Thomas
                      (3, 7, 37, 43) and 34 are not (1, 12, 13, 18, 19, 22,
                      27, 28, 29, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 56, 59, 67, 70, 75,
                      77, 80, 83, 84, 85, 87, 88, 101, 105, 106, 108, 110,
                      112, 113, 114).

                      The evidence he presents for the existence of the
                      postulated kernel gospel is quite weak. In
                      particular, he fails to demonstrate that this kernel
                      gospel has any internal organization to it.

                      Still, I think it likely that the units in his
                      proposed kernel gospel are, on the average, of earlier
                      origin than the other units in GTh,

                      For example, he (p. 198) states, "Second, just over
                      fifty percent of the sayings in the kernel gospel are
                      paralleled in Q. Not even one saying with a Q
                      parallel, however, can be found in the later layers.
                      This also cannot be a coincidence. It suggests to me
                      that the sayings in the kernel gospel of Thomas are
                      some of the oldest witnesses to the Jesus traditions.
                      Additionally, my initial analysis of the kernel gospel
                      seems to indicate that neither Q nor the kernel Thomas
                      were literarily dependent upon the other."

                      Assuming that, *on the average*, the units wholly
                      present in the postulated kernel gospel are earlier
                      than those partially present in the postulated
                      kernel gospel and that, in turn, the units partially
                      present in the postulated kernel gospel are, *on the
                      average*, earlier than those completely absent from
                      the postulated kernel gospel, then, if the postulated
                      Proto-Thomas is a real document, the expectation is
                      that it contains a higher percentage of the units
                      wholly in the postulated kernel gospel than of the
                      units partially present in the postulated kernel
                      gospel and that, in turn, it contains a higher
                      percentage of the units partially present in the
                      postulated kernel gospel than of the units completely
                      absent from the postulated kernel gospel.

                      Indeed, this is the case: with the postulated
                      Proto-Thomas containing 34/60 (57%) of the units
                      wholly present in the postulated kernel gospel, 5/16
                      (31%) of the units partially present in the postulated
                      kernel gospel, and 4/38 (11%) of the units completely
                      absent from the postulated kernel gospel.

                      Again, this is an indication that, on the average, the
                      sayings attributed to Jesus in the proposed
                      Proto-Thomas are of significantly earlier origin than
                      the sayings attributed to Jesus in the proposed later
                      additions to this Proto-Thomas--just as one would
                      expect if Proto-Thomas was a real document.

                      (Note: While I find the evidence for the postulated
                      kernel gospel to be weak, I think it likely that there
                      was at least one intermediate document between the
                      proposed Proto-Thomas and GTh. Further, it is
                      possible that such an intermediary document might have
                      consisted of the proposed Proto-Thomas plus many of
                      the kernel sayings not to be found in the proposed
                      Proto-Thomas.)

                      CONCLUDING REMARKS

                      It can be hypothesised that there was a Proto-Thomas
                      document consisting of GTh 2-10, 31-48, 61-65, and
                      89-99. There are two basic reasons for thinking that
                      this hypothesis is likely to be true. First, the
                      postulated Proto-Thomas appears to have an internal
                      structure to it. Second, the units assigned to
                      Proto-Thomas appear to be, on average, of earlier
                      origin than
                      the units assigned to the later additions to
                      Proto-Thomas.

                      This is the first part of a two part posting. The
                      second part will regard a possible sitz em leben for
                      the writing of Proto-Thomas. It also will include the
                      text of Proto-Thomas.

                      Any suggestions or comments?

                      Regards,

                      Frank McCoy
                      1809 N. English Apt. 17
                      Maplewood, MN USA 55109






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                    • Frank McCoy
                      INTRODUCTION This is the second part of a two part posting on Proto-Thomas--a proposed early version of GTh which consists of GTh 2-10, 31-48, 61-65, and
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 16, 2002
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                        INTRODUCTION

                        This is the second part of a two part posting on
                        Proto-Thomas--a proposed early version of GTh which
                        consists of GTh 2-10, 31-48, 61-65, and 89-99.

                        In this second part, it is suggested that Proto-Thomas
                        was written at Tyre in the late fifties. Also, text
                        of Proto-Thomas is given.

                        THE SITZ EM LEBEN FOR PROTO-THOMAS

                        For determining the sitz em leben for Proto-Thomas, I
                        think that unit 61 is a good place to start, "Jesus
                        said, 'Two will rest on a bed: the one will die and
                        the other will live.' Salome said, 'Who are You, man,
                        that You, as though from the One, have come up on my
                        couch and eaten from my table?' Jesus said to her, 'I
                        am He who exists from the Undivided. I was given some
                        of the things of my Father.' 'I am your disciple.'"

                        Salome is a very important person to the Proto-Thomas
                        community, for she is, except for Jesus himself, the
                        only person given a name in Proto-Thomas. Indeed,
                        such a unique status indicates, to me, that she
                        is the founder of the Proto-Thomas community.

                        I suggest that she is the Syro-Phoenician woman, from
                        the area around Tyre, mentioned in Mark 7:24-30.

                        For one thing, this woman had a daughter lying on a
                        bed. Is it a coincidence that lying on a bed/couch
                        plays an important role in 61a? I think not.

                        For another thing, the Syro-Phoenician woman tells
                        Jesus, "Lord, even the doggies under the table eat
                        from the crumbs of the children." Is it a
                        coincidence that eating at a table plays an important
                        role in 61a? I think not.

                        So, I suggest, Salome is the name of the
                        Syro-Phoenician woman of Mark 7:24-30 and she was the
                        founder of the Proto-Thomas community.

                        If so, then, as she resided in the vicinity of Tyre,
                        and as she was a Gentile, and as Jews were a small
                        minority in Tyre, the expectation is that the
                        Proto-Thomas community was centered at Tyre and
                        consisted of Gentiles.

                        In this regard, unit 64 is very important.

                        64 is a parable which also is found in the Q
                        tradition. The Q tradition version of this parable,
                        though, lacks this ending to 64, "Businessmen and
                        merchants will not enter the Places of My Father."

                        I take this to mean that the ending of 64 is not
                        original to the parable, but was added to it because
                        the Proto-Thomas community lived in an area which was
                        a major center for trade and commerce. In this
                        regard, it is significant that Tyre was a major center
                        for trade and commerce.

                        Also important is unit 8: where a man is fishing in
                        the sea and takes the large fish and throws the rest
                        back. This parable would have been of interest to
                        people living on the sea-coast--and Tyre was on the
                        sea-coast.

                        Also, in view of the extensive over-lap between the
                        Proto-Thomas tradition and the Q tradition, and in
                        view of both communities focusing on sayings of Jesus
                        and down-playing the significance of Jesus' death,
                        there is a likelhood that the Proto-Thomas community
                        was geographically close to the Q community.

                        This is consistent with the Proto-Thomas community
                        being located at Tyre--for Tyre was geographically
                        close to Galilee: which probably was the location of
                        the Q community.

                        Further, there are several indications that the
                        Proto-Thomas community consisted of Gentiles.

                        Particularly important is unit 43b, where Jesus tells
                        his disciples, "You do not realize who I am from what
                        I say to you, but you have become like the Jews, for
                        they (either) love the tree and hate its fruit (or)
                        love the fruit and hate the tree."

                        To me, this is a clear indication that the
                        Proto-Thomas community consisted of Gentiles.

                        Also, the lack of any references to Jewish scriptures
                        in Proto-Thomas is consistent with the idea that the
                        Proto-Thomas community was purely Gentile: being
                        founded by a Gentile (i.e., the Syro-Phoenician woman)
                        and consisting of Gentiles.

                        Finally, the harsh attitude towards the brothers of
                        Jesus in unit 99 is consistent with the idea that the
                        Proto-Thomas community consisted of Gentiles who were
                        hostile towards the Jerusalem Church led by James the
                        Just, one of the brothers of Jesus--presumably because
                        they were resisting pressure, from the Jerusalem
                        Church, to start observing the Law of Moses.

                        Relevant to the discussion is Acts 21:3-5 (RSV), "When
                        we had come in sight of Cyprus, leaving it on the left
                        we sailed to Syria, and landed at Tyre; for there the
                        ship was to unload cargo (Which underscores the
                        importance of Tyre as a center of trade and commerce).
                        And having sought out the disciples, we stayed there
                        for seven days. Through the Spirit they told Paul not
                        to go on to Jerusalem. And when our days there were
                        ended, we departed and went on our journey; and they
                        all, with wives and children,
                        brought us on our way till we were outside the city;
                        and kneeling down on the beach we prayed and bade one
                        another farewell."

                        Here, we learn, there was a Christian community at
                        Tyre in the mid-fifties. It apparently consisted of
                        Gentiles--for they treat Paul and his followers
                        as allies and warn him about the dangers he faced
                        (from Christian Jews zealous for the Law)if he
                        insisted on going to Jerusalem. This Christian
                        community at Tyre, apparently composed of Gentiles,
                        is, I suggest, the Proto-Thomas community.

                        In line with this idea, it is noteworthy that, in Acts
                        21:3-6, it is emphasised, the Spirit was important to
                        the members of the Christian community at Tyre.
                        Similarly, the Spirit was important to the members of
                        the Proto-Thomas community: see unit 44, "Whoever
                        blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and
                        whoever blasphemes against the Son will be forgiven,
                        but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will
                        not be forgiven either on earth or in heaven."

                        As for the dating of Proto-Thomas, I think that it was
                        most likely written after the Proto-Thomas community
                        made contact with Paul and/or one or more of his
                        followers (for, I suspect, some of the units in it,
                        particularly 7, have been influenced by Pauline
                        thought), but while James the Just was still
                        presiding over the Jerusalem Church (for I suspect
                        that the harsh criticism of the brothers of Jesus in
                        unit 99 is aimed at him). If the Proto-Thomas
                        community be the Christian community at Tyre, with
                        which Paul first made contact in the mid-fifties, this
                        makes the most likely date for the writing of
                        Proto-Thomas to be sometime in the late 50s--after
                        Paul made contact with the Proto-Thomas community in
                        the mid fifties, but before the death of James the
                        Just in the early 60s.

                        So, to conclude, it is suggested that the Sitz em
                        Leben for Proto-Thomas was Tyre in the late fifties.
                        In this case, the Proto-Thomas community was founded
                        even while Jesus was still alive by a Syro-Phoenician
                        woman named Salome and it consisted of Gentiles. It
                        had contacts with both the Q community and the
                        Jerusalem Church. As respects the Jerusalem Church
                        and
                        its leader, James the Just, it appears to have had a
                        cool to hostile attitude. In this case, it came into
                        contact with Paul in the mid-fifties and he was
                        accepted by its members as an ally.

                        In this case, the Proto-Thomas community differed in
                        some major respects from the GTh community--which took
                        Thomas to be its founder and thought that James the
                        Just was the cat's meow. This indicates that there was
                        a major passage of time between the writing of
                        Proto-Thomas and GTh and/or that GTh was written at a
                        far different location than Proto-Thomas.

                        THE TEXT OF PROTO-THOMAS

                        Section 1

                        2.Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking
                        until he finds. When he finds he will become
                        troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be
                        astonished, and he will rule over the All."
                        3. Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you,
                        'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of
                        the sky will precede you. If they say to you,
                        'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
                        Rather the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside
                        of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you
                        will become known, and you will realize that is is you
                        who are the sons of the living Father. But if you
                        will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it
                        is you who are that poverty."
                        4.Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate
                        to ask a small child seven days old about the place of
                        life, and he will live. For many who are first will
                        become last, and they will become one and the same."
                        5.Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and
                        that which is hidden from you will become plain to
                        you. For there is nothing hidden which will not
                        become manifest."
                        6. His disciples questioned Him and said to Him, "Do
                        You want us to fast? How shall we pray? Shall we give
                        alms? What diet shall we observe?" Jesus said, "Do not
                        tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things
                        are plain in the sight of heaven. For nothing hidden
                        will not become manifest, and nothing covered will
                        remain without being uncovered."
                        7.Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man
                        when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the
                        lion consumes, and the lion becomes man."
                        8. And he said, "The man is like a wise fisherman who
                        cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea
                        full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman
                        found a fine large fish. He threw all the small fish
                        back into the sea and chose the large fish without
                        difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."
                        9. Jesus said, "Now the sower went out, took a handful
                        (of seeds), and scattered them. Some fell on the road;
                        the birds came and gathered them up. Others fell on
                        rock, did not take root in the soil, and did not
                        produce ears. And others fell on thorns; they choked
                        the seed(s) and worms ate them. And others fell on
                        the good soil and produced good fruit: it bore sixty
                        per measure and a hundred and twenty per measure."
                        10. Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and
                        see, I am guarding it until it blazes."

                        Section 2

                        31.Jesus said, "No prophet is accepted in his own
                        village; no physician heals those who know him."
                        32. Jesus said, "A city built on a high mountain and
                        fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden."
                        33. Jesus said, "Preach from your housetops that which
                        you hear hear in your ear (and) in the other ear. For
                        no one lights a lamp and upts it under a bushel, nor
                        does he put it in a hidden place, but rather he sets
                        it on a lampstand so that everyone who enters and
                        leaves will see its light."
                        34.Jesus said, "If a blind man leads a blind man, they
                        will both fall into a pit."
                        35.Jesus said, "It is not possible for any one to
                        enter the house of a strong man and take it by force
                        unless he binds his hands; then he will (be) able to
                        ransack his house."
                        36. Jesus said, "Do not be concerned from morning
                        until evening and from evening until morning about
                        what you will wear."
                        37. His disciples said, "When will you become revealed
                        to us and when shall we see You?" Jesus said, "When
                        you disrobe without being ashamed and take up your
                        garments and place them under your feet like little
                        children and tread on them, then [will you see] the
                        Son of the Living One and you will not be afraid."
                        38.Jesus said, "Many times have you desired to hear
                        these words which I am saying to you, and you have no
                        one else to hear them from. There will be days when
                        you will look for Me and will not find Me."
                        39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scribes have
                        taken the keys of Knowledge and hidden them. They
                        themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to
                        enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as
                        serpents and as innocent as doves."
                        40. Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted outside
                        of the Father, but being unsound, it will be pulled up
                        by its roots and destroyed."
                        41. Jesus said, "Whoever has something in his hand
                        will receive more, and whoever has nothing will be
                        deprived of even the little he has."
                        42. Jesus said, "Become passers-by."
                        43. His disciples said to him, "Who are You, that You
                        should say these things to us?" "You do not realize
                        who I am from what I say to you, but you have become
                        like the Jews, for they (either) love the tree and
                        hate its fruit (or) love the fruit and hate the tree."
                        44.Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father
                        will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the
                        Son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against
                        the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either on earth
                        or in heaven."
                        45. Jesus said, "Grapes are not harvested from thorns,
                        nor are figs gathered from thistles, for they do not
                        produce fruit. A good man brings forth good from his
                        storehouse; and evil man brings forth evil things from
                        his evil storehouse, which is in his heart, and says
                        evil things. For out of the abundance of the heart he
                        brings forth evil things."
                        46. Jesus said, "Among those born of women, from Adam
                        until John the Baptist, there is no one so superior to
                        John the Baptist that his eyes should not be lowered
                        (before) him. Yet I have said, whichever one of you
                        comes to be a child, will be acquainted with the
                        Kingdom and will become superior to John."
                        47. Jesus said, "It is impossible for a man to mount
                        two horses or to stretch two bows. And it is
                        impossible for a servant to serve two masters;
                        otherwise he will honor the one and treat the other
                        contemptuously. No man drinks old wine and
                        immediately desires to drink new wine. And new wine
                        is
                        not put into old wineskins, lest they burst; nor is
                        old wine put into a new wineskin, let it spoil it. An
                        old patch is not sewn into a new garment, because a
                        tear would result."
                        48. Jesus said, "If two make peace with each other in
                        this one house, they will say to the mountain, 'Move
                        away,' and it will move away."
                        61. Jesus said, "Two will rest on a bed: the one will
                        die and the other will live." Salome said, "Who are
                        You, man, that You, as though from the One,have come
                        up on my couch and eaten from my table?" Jesus said
                        to her, "I am He who exists from the Undivided. I was
                        given some of the things of my Father." "I am your
                        disciple." "Therefore I say, if he is <undivided>, he
                        will be filled with light, but if he is divided, he
                        will be filled with darkness."
                        62.Jesus said, "It is those [who are worthy of My]
                        mysteries that I tell my mysteries. Do not let your
                        left hand know what your right hand is doing."
                        63. Jesus said, "There was a rich man who had much
                        money. He said, "I shall put my money to use so that
                        I may sow, reap, plant, and fill my storehouse with
                        produce, with the result that I shall lack nothing.'
                        Such were his intentions, but that same night he died.
                        Let him who has ears hear."
                        64. Jesus said, "A man had received visitors. And
                        when he had prepared the dinner, he sent his servant
                        to invite the guests. He went to the first one and
                        said to him, 'My master invites you.' He said, 'I
                        have claims against some merchants. They are coming
                        to me this evening. I must go and give them my
                        orders. I ask to be excused from the dinner.' He
                        went to another and said to him, 'My master has
                        invited you.' He said to him, 'My friend is going to
                        get married, and I am to prepare the banquet. I shall
                        not be able to come. I ask to be excused from the
                        dinner.' He went to another and said ato him, 'My
                        master invites you.' He said to him, 'I have just
                        bought a farm, and I am on my way to collect the rent.
                        I shall not be able to come. I ask to be excused.'
                        The servant returned and said to his master, 'Those
                        whom you invited to the dinner have asked to be
                        excused.' The master said to his servant, 'Go outside
                        to the streets and bring back those whom you happen to
                        meet, so that they may dine.' Businessmen and
                        merchants will not enter
                        the Places of My Father.'"
                        65. He said, "There was a good man who owned a
                        vineyard. He leased it to tenant farmers so that they
                        might work it and he might collect the produce from
                        them. He sent his servant so that the tenants might
                        give him the produce of the vineyard. They seized his
                        servant and beat him, all but killing him. The
                        servant went back and told his master. The master
                        said, 'Perhaps <they> did not recognize <him>.' He
                        sent another servant. The tenants beat this one as
                        well. Then the owner sent his son and said, 'Perhaps
                        they will show respect to my son.' Because the
                        tenants knew that it was he who was the heir to the
                        vineyard, they seized him and killed him. Let him who
                        has ears hear."
                        89.Jesus said, "Why do you wash the outside of the
                        cup? Do you not realize that he who made the inside
                        is the same one who made the outside?"
                        90. Jesus said, "Come unto me, for My yoke is easy and
                        My lordship is mild, and you will find repose for
                        yourselves."

                        Section 3

                        91. They said to Him, "Tell us who You are so that we
                        may believe in You." He said to them, "You read the
                        face of the sky and of the earth, but you have not
                        recognized the one who (or: that which) is before you,
                        and you do not know how to read this moment."
                        92.Jesus said, "Seek and you will find. Yet, what you
                        asked Me about in former times and which I did not
                        tell you then, now I do desire to tell, but you do not
                        inquire after it."
                        93. <Jesus said,> "Do not give what is holy to dogs,
                        lest they throw them on the dung-heap. Do not throw
                        the pearls to swine, lest they grind it [to bits]."
                        94. Jesus [said], "He who seeks will find, and [he who
                        knocks] will be let in."
                        95. [Jesus said,], "If you have money, do not lend it
                        at interest, but give [it] to one from whom you will
                        not get it back."
                        96. Jesus [said], "The Kingdom of the Father is like a
                        certain woman. She took a little leaven, [concealed]
                        it in some dough, and made it into large loaves. Let
                        him who has ears hear."
                        97. Jesus said, "The kingdom of the [Father] is like a
                        certain woman who was carrying a jar full of meal.
                        While she was walking [on] a road, still some
                        distance from home, the handle of the jar broke and
                        the meal emptied out behind her on the road. She did
                        not ralize it; she had noticed no accident. When she
                        reached her house, she set the jar down and found it
                        empty,"
                        98. Jesus said, "The Kingdom of the Father is like a
                        certain man who wanted to kill a powerful man. In his
                        own house he drew his sword and stuck it into the wall
                        in order to find out whether his hand could carry
                        through. Then he slew the powerful man."
                        99. The disciples said to Him, "Your brothers and Your
                        mother are standing outside." He said to them,
                        "Those here who do the will of My Father are My
                        brothers and My mother. It is they who will enter the
                        Kingdom of My Father."

                        Comments and suggestions are welcomed.

                        Frank McCoy
                        1809 N. English
                        Maplewood, MN USA 55109






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