24145Re: [XTalk] Draft of Lord's/Disciple's Prayer Book
- Apr 17, 2013On 4/17/2013 7:23 AM, Gordon Raynal wrote:
> Good Morning Jeffrey,Thanks!
> Thanks for posting your work and this invitation. I've read the
> opening chapter this morning and I have 4 comments:
> 1. I very much like your gathering of the many versions of the prayer
> in one place. Most helpful and this will make it a good teaching tool.
>Is that what I said?
> 2. I agree with you that this is most probably a creation of the
> earliest members of "the Way" (to borrow that descriptive term from
> As you note, calling YHWH Elohim "Father," is rooted in aBut what exactly is being asked for in these requests.
> number of resources in the Hebrew scriptures. And, of course, asking
> for bread, for forgiveness, for aid with temptations is similarly
> With Hal Taussig, I can imagine that Jesus might well haveSomething I deal with in Chapter 3. But it's also rooted in Jesus'
> used some of these phrases aphoristically, or that some of these
> phrases were rooted in Jesus' aphorisms and parables, and I wonder if
> his own language might have been part of the background of creating
> the prayer(s), but whether that is the case or not, it is a thoroughly
> Hebraic/ Jewish prayer with the aforementioned deep roots.
conception of how God wants his faithful to be his people.
>I don't deal with hypothetical texts, just the ones that we have.
> 3. Not to rehash the Q/ no Q debates, but I will note that this
> prayer is a part of the Q sermon in the earliest layer according to
> Kloppenborg, Mack and others. Here, all I'll say is that I think it
> is very early and could have been created when Jesus was still alive.
>Interesting points. And just who the disciples are in Jesus eyes and
> 4. If pressed for a new name, I'd choose "Apostles' Prayer," and not
> "Disciples Prayer." Why? The foundational mission agenda is a
> mission of envoys/ sent ones (apostles) (Q/ Luke 10:1ff). This naming
> business gets us to the issue of how this group formed and what
> exactly was Jesus' role in the original group/ groups? Did Jesus
> found a group? Or was Jesus a part of a group with specific
> offerings/ gifts that eventually led him to be acclaimed as the "lord/
> master/ rabbi," and embodiment of the group? That's a different
> discussion, but if this prayer/ these prayers are either the
> composition(s) of another while Jesus was alive or in the years after
> his execution, then what word/ title best describes them? As Paul,
> for example, uses the "Abba" line in Galatians and Romans, I think the
> best descriptive is: "Apostle."
what his intentions were in calling and gathering them is a question I
take up in the 4th chapter.
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>