Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

22764Re: [XTalk] Re: Social Healing, Movement Constitution and Titling and now coins

Expand Messages
  • Gordon Raynal
    Aug 5, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Robert,
      On Aug 5, 2008, at 5:06 AM, RSBrenchley@... wrote:

      > In a message dated 04/08/2008 11:04:13 GMT Daylight Time,
      > crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com writes:
      > <<I appreciate this point. With Vespasian and I believe they run up
      > thru Domitian there were a whole series of coins that declared: Judea
      > Capta. That one denarius of Vespasian where a Jewess mourning under
      > a Roman trophy is truly haunting. But then according to Meshorer and
      > Hendin, Agrippa II also minted bronze coins that declared the same.
      > To say the least the Gospel writers provided a very spirited response
      > with their narratives of Jesus Christ, son of God.
      > Gordon Raynal
      > Inman, SC>>
      > Agrippa certainly minted coins celebrating the 'victory' of the
      > various
      > Flavian emperors. He supported the campaign against the Jewish
      > rebels throughout,
      > but he never explicitly mentions the Judean campaign on his
      > coinage. Since
      > Vespasian and his sons (Domitian may well have been involved
      > somehow in a
      > support capacity) fought two campaigns, one in Judea, the other to
      > seize power in
      > Rome, I personally think the 'Judea Capta' thing is often taken
      > too far, and
      > the term should be restricted to those coins which explicitly
      > mention Judea.

      I dug out my book by Hendin: "Guide to Biblical Coins-4th
      Edition" [Note to all: David Hendin lives in New York State and is
      considered the leading, living expert on the subject. He identified
      and numbered many, many of these coins and they are identified now by
      their Hendin number. This book is a terrific resource for studying
      the coinage. Another broader resource to look at the ancient coins
      is found at:
      www:wildwinds.com and there is an easy to use search engine at that

      Robert, I agree about the vagueness of identification that has been
      spun out among coin folk. A classic example is calling that Tiberian
      denarius, "the Tribute Penny" (the one that aroused Jesus to come up
      with the aphorism, "Render unto Caesar...."). It could well be, but
      it just as well could have been any number of other silver denarius'
      that had been produced by Augustus. Augustus produced a lot more in
      numbers and designs than Tiberius did and these coins stayed in
      circulation a long time. Regarding the Capta coins, the one's like I
      sited that picture the mourning Jewess and Judea were clearly minted
      to celebrate the Flavian victory. How many of the ones that show
      Nike and simply say "the Victory of Augustus" are a bit shakier. But
      then this crushing victory that was prosecuted by Vespasian and then
      Titus was a big piece of the foundation of his claim to power. The
      chaos of the last days of the Julio-Claudians under Nero and then the
      chaos of 68-69 C.E. where Vitellius, Galba and Otho took the lead and
      just as quickly lost it, was the sad end to the dynasty founded in
      Julius Caesar and truly established under Octavian become Augustus.
      Regarding "Son of God" language, the Flavians and onward continued to
      use the names "Caesar" and "Augustus" as the titles of the realm, and
      that carried both the political and religious communication about
      what undergirded their power. Having just left July and having now
      entered August, the echoes of this divine claim are still on the
      calendar today:)! And then, of course, it continues on in that next
      month, the 9th of the the way we count years, is still called
      "September," (that 7th month in the Roman calendar and the month of
      Octavian's birth on the 23rd, for those who don't know or have

      And this leads me to note a quote from the historian, Michael Grant,
      that Hendin includes in his section on the Capta coins: Grant said:
      Roman coins "served a propoganda purpose far greater than any other
      national coinage before or since. This was the means which the Roman
      government, lacking modern media of publicity, used to insinuate into
      every house in the empire each changing nuance of imperial
      achievement and policy. Their unremitting use of this means is
      evidence enough... that in the course of their vast circulation these
      coins were studied with an attentiveness that is quite alien to our
      I think this is a helpful and most pointed quote. Regarding the
      issue of the crushing of Jerusalem and Judea this was news spread
      across the Roman world by means of the stuff of daily transactions.
      The victory there and the crushing of ***the*** one and only Jewish
      Temple was not just "local news," but news spread across the empire.
      Whatever one thinks of the gospels, I think pondering such as that is
      very important when one thinks about the whole era, the kinds of
      writings produced and the challenge language as to the significance
      of that Roman victory. By destroying temples many ancient religions
      simply died out (are their any Temples to Isis in your neighborhood,
      anyone?). So again, that Vespasian denarius that says "Judea" on it,
      is truly quite haunting.

      Thanks for this note and your thoughts.

      Gordon Raynal
      Inman, SC
      > Regards,
      > Robert Brenchley
      > Birmingham UK
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > ------------------------------------
      > The XTalk Home Page is http://ntgateway.com/xtalk/
      > To subscribe to Xtalk, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-
      > subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-
      > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > List managers may be contacted directly at: crosstalk2-
      > owners@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Show all 6 messages in this topic