22313Re: [XTalk] once more, Jesus and angels
- Jun 6, 2007E Bruce Brooks wrote:
> To: XTalkUmm .. strictly speaking I said nothing about the **rarity** of Jesus' reference
> In Response To: Jeffrey Gibson and others
> On: Angels
> From: Bruce
> In his most recent note on this subject, Jeffrey remarked, a propos the
> rarity of angels in Gospel sayings attributed to Jesus, as against matter
> seemingly derived from the Gospel writers themselves, "Why do the
> evangelists not have Jesus buttress what they believe?"
to angels. I said that what he is reported as saying **about the functions of
angels*** only occasionally overlaps with what the evangelists say in this regard
in their narratives about angels.
>I think you can make this claim only if you neglect the "angel talk" that appears
> To me, this is one of the basic questions. In general, movement founders are
> pretty plastic in the hands of the later traditions of those movements. But
> there also seem to be limits in particular cases. And when there are limits,
> they are often historically suggestive. In the Buddhist case, though Buddha
> is invariably portrayed as personally answering some question arising from
> monastic practice, he usually does so from offstage, as it were, and not as
> himself the head of a resident monastic institution. This, to me at least,
> reflects a reticence in the later sutra writers about portraying Buddha in a
> role which he could not historically have held. The Confucians too, for at
> least a century after Confucius's death, still retain the image of a
> Confucius who was poor and disadvantaged in his youth (though later on, this
> does change). As for the Christian texts, I have always admired the way gJn
> carefully distinguishes between the disciples, who *did* baptize, and Jesus,
> who "did not."
> A lot is going on in the second-tier Gospels (Mt/Lk), including some mere
> retention of earlier tradition from Mk, which somewhat confuses the picture,
> but one of the new things that seems to be going on, at any rate in the Mt
> half of things, is a movement back to Judaism, from which, especially in
> matters of law, the Jesus movement seems at first to have strongly distanced
> itself, whence nearly all of the "conflict stories." Might not angels fit
> into this category also? Angels seem to be highly developed in Judaism, but
> it is, again, only in the second tier of the Christian writings that they
> make much of an effect.
in Paul, of which there is a decent amount, yes?
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>