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re: source crit.

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  • Jim West
    ... Very cold. In any event, I don t know if you meant it as a slight or a compliment- but I take it as the latter. It is, to be sure, no dishonor to be
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
      At 05:25 PM 1/3/99 -0500, you wrote:

      >How's the weather in Denmark?
      >
      >Stephen Carlson

      Very cold. In any event, I don't know if you meant it as a slight or a
      compliment- but I take it as the latter. It is, to be sure, no dishonor to
      be associated with the Copenhageners.

      Best,

      Jim

      +++++++++++++++++++++++++

      Jim West, ThD
      Quartz Hill School of Theology

      jwest@...
    • Stephen C. Carlson
      ... It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and Christian
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
        At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
        >I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
        >that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.

        It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of
        the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and
        Christian conservatives who still hold to Mosaic authorship?

        >And the Pentateuch can be as easily understood in a post exilic context as
        >it can in a David/Monarchic context.

        How's the weather in Denmark?

        Stephen Carlson
        --
        Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
        Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
        "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
      • Ian Hutchesson
        ... This was not at all an intelligent post of yours, Stephen. Ian
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
          At 17.25 03/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
          >At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
          >>I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
          >>that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.
          >
          >It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of
          >the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and
          >Christian conservatives who still hold to Mosaic authorship?
          >
          >>And the Pentateuch can be as easily understood in a post exilic context as
          >>it can in a David/Monarchic context.
          >
          >How's the weather in Denmark?

          This was not at all an intelligent post of yours, Stephen.


          Ian
        • Bob Schacht
          ... Jim, OK, you ve changed what I wrote in two important ways: 1. ...the *old* JEDP theory.... I suppose this means as formulated by Wellhausen 100 years
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
            At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
            >I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
            >that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.
            >

            Jim,
            OK, you've changed what I wrote in two important ways:
            1. "...the *old* JEDP theory...." I suppose this means as formulated by
            Wellhausen 100 years ago, with no updates allowed? If so, I grant your
            point. But what the ADB (1992, VI:162) says is that "Most German- and
            English-speaking scholars have continued to accept some version of
            Wellhausen's hypothesis, but without pressing the details of the source
            division..."

            2. "...among *many* OT scholars" OK, hard to object to that. I gather that
            you have found the views of the Scandanavian/Copenhagen school(s) persuasive.

            >And the Pentateuch can be as easily understood in a post exilic context as
            >it can in a David/Monarchic context.
            >
            >

            Well, it would take us too far afield for the purposes of this list to
            debate that point, so I'll let it go.

            Bob
            Robert Schacht
            Northern Arizona University
            Robert.Schacht@...

            "This success of my endeavors was due, I believe, to a rule of 'method':
            that we should always try to clarify and to strengthen our opponent's
            position as much as possible before criticizing him, if we wish our
            criticism to be worth while." [Sir Karl Popper, The Logic of Scientific
            Discovery (1968), p. 260 n.*5]
          • Stephen C. Carlson
            ... Ian, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Aside from a typo, which may have made things unclear to you (I meant Is it not It is), I was
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
              At 01:10 AM 1/4/99 +0100, Ian Hutchesson wrote:
              >At 17.25 03/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
              >>At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
              >>>I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
              >>>that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.
              >>
              >>It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of
              >>the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and
              >>Christian conservatives who still hold to Mosaic authorship?
              >>
              >This was not at all an intelligent post of yours, Stephen.

              Ian, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Aside from a
              typo, which may have made things unclear to you (I meant "Is it" not
              "It is), I was simply asking a question. I would like to know which
              scholars outside of two identifiable schools of thought discount the
              Documentary Hypothesis.

              If you happen to know of any, please post.

              Stephen Carlson
              --
              Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
              Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
              "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
            • Stephen C. Carlson
              ... I meant neither, except to be humorous. I would agree, of course, that there s no dishonor to be associated with the Copenhagen School. Whether they
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
                At 09:00 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
                >At 05:25 PM 1/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
                >>How's the weather in Denmark?
                >>
                >Very cold. In any event, I don't know if you meant it as a slight or a
                >compliment- but I take it as the latter. It is, to be sure, no dishonor to
                >be associated with the Copenhageners.

                I meant neither, except to be humorous. I would agree, of course, that
                there's no dishonor to be associated with the Copenhagen School. Whether
                they ultimately succeed or fail, they have already been beneficial to the
                discipline in that they have challenged many critical assumptions, whether
                true or false, that have simply been taken for granted for too long. Even
                so, since their views are still somewhat obscure to those who are new to
                the subject matter and extremely controversial, it's good to let people know
                where they're coming from.

                Stephen Carlson

                --
                Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
                Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
                "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
              • Ian Hutchesson
                ... Sorry, Stephen. There have been numerous posts on lists I subscribe to that make rash statements about the so-called Copenhagen School. It seemed as though
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
                  At 22.53 03/01/99 -0500, Stephen Carlson wrote:
                  >At 01:10 AM 1/4/99 +0100, Ian Hutchesson wrote:
                  >>At 17.25 03/01/99 -0500, Stephen Carlson wrote:
                  >>>At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
                  >>>>I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
                  >>>>that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.
                  >>>
                  >>>It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of
                  >>>the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and
                  >>>Christian conservatives who still hold to Mosaic authorship?
                  >>>
                  >>This was not at all an intelligent post of yours, Stephen.
                  >
                  >Ian, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Aside from a
                  >typo, which may have made things unclear to you (I meant "Is it" not
                  >"It is), I was simply asking a question. I would like to know which
                  >scholars outside of two identifiable schools of thought discount the
                  >Documentary Hypothesis.
                  >
                  >If you happen to know of any, please post.

                  Sorry, Stephen. There have been numerous posts on lists I subscribe to that
                  make rash statements about the so-called Copenhagen School.

                  It seemed as though there was a mistaken assumption in your statements that
                  people who "follow" this school support the old JEDP theory, which is
                  patently misguided.


                  Ian
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