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re: source crit.

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  • Jim West
    I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars. And the Pentateuch
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
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      I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
      that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.

      And the Pentateuch can be as easily understood in a post exilic context as
      it can in a David/Monarchic context.


      Best,

      Jim

      +++++++++++++++++++++++++

      Jim West, ThD
      Quartz Hill School of Theology

      jwest@...
    • Jim West
      ... Very cold. In any event, I don t know if you meant it as a slight or a compliment- but I take it as the latter. It is, to be sure, no dishonor to be
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
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        At 05:25 PM 1/3/99 -0500, you wrote:

        >How's the weather in Denmark?
        >
        >Stephen Carlson

        Very cold. In any event, I don't know if you meant it as a slight or a
        compliment- but I take it as the latter. It is, to be sure, no dishonor to
        be associated with the Copenhageners.

        Best,

        Jim

        +++++++++++++++++++++++++

        Jim West, ThD
        Quartz Hill School of Theology

        jwest@...
      • Stephen C. Carlson
        ... It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and Christian
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
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          At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
          >I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
          >that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.

          It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of
          the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and
          Christian conservatives who still hold to Mosaic authorship?

          >And the Pentateuch can be as easily understood in a post exilic context as
          >it can in a David/Monarchic context.

          How's the weather in Denmark?

          Stephen Carlson
          --
          Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
          Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
          "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
        • Ian Hutchesson
          ... This was not at all an intelligent post of yours, Stephen. Ian
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
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            At 17.25 03/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
            >At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
            >>I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
            >>that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.
            >
            >It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of
            >the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and
            >Christian conservatives who still hold to Mosaic authorship?
            >
            >>And the Pentateuch can be as easily understood in a post exilic context as
            >>it can in a David/Monarchic context.
            >
            >How's the weather in Denmark?

            This was not at all an intelligent post of yours, Stephen.


            Ian
          • Bob Schacht
            ... Jim, OK, you ve changed what I wrote in two important ways: 1. ...the *old* JEDP theory.... I suppose this means as formulated by Wellhausen 100 years
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
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              At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
              >I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
              >that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.
              >

              Jim,
              OK, you've changed what I wrote in two important ways:
              1. "...the *old* JEDP theory...." I suppose this means as formulated by
              Wellhausen 100 years ago, with no updates allowed? If so, I grant your
              point. But what the ADB (1992, VI:162) says is that "Most German- and
              English-speaking scholars have continued to accept some version of
              Wellhausen's hypothesis, but without pressing the details of the source
              division..."

              2. "...among *many* OT scholars" OK, hard to object to that. I gather that
              you have found the views of the Scandanavian/Copenhagen school(s) persuasive.

              >And the Pentateuch can be as easily understood in a post exilic context as
              >it can in a David/Monarchic context.
              >
              >

              Well, it would take us too far afield for the purposes of this list to
              debate that point, so I'll let it go.

              Bob
              Robert Schacht
              Northern Arizona University
              Robert.Schacht@...

              "This success of my endeavors was due, I believe, to a rule of 'method':
              that we should always try to clarify and to strengthen our opponent's
              position as much as possible before criticizing him, if we wish our
              criticism to be worth while." [Sir Karl Popper, The Logic of Scientific
              Discovery (1968), p. 260 n.*5]
            • Stephen C. Carlson
              ... Ian, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Aside from a typo, which may have made things unclear to you (I meant Is it not It is), I was
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
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                At 01:10 AM 1/4/99 +0100, Ian Hutchesson wrote:
                >At 17.25 03/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
                >>At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
                >>>I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
                >>>that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.
                >>
                >>It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of
                >>the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and
                >>Christian conservatives who still hold to Mosaic authorship?
                >>
                >This was not at all an intelligent post of yours, Stephen.

                Ian, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Aside from a
                typo, which may have made things unclear to you (I meant "Is it" not
                "It is), I was simply asking a question. I would like to know which
                scholars outside of two identifiable schools of thought discount the
                Documentary Hypothesis.

                If you happen to know of any, please post.

                Stephen Carlson
                --
                Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
                Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
                "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
              • Stephen C. Carlson
                ... I meant neither, except to be humorous. I would agree, of course, that there s no dishonor to be associated with the Copenhagen School. Whether they
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
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                  At 09:00 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
                  >At 05:25 PM 1/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
                  >>How's the weather in Denmark?
                  >>
                  >Very cold. In any event, I don't know if you meant it as a slight or a
                  >compliment- but I take it as the latter. It is, to be sure, no dishonor to
                  >be associated with the Copenhageners.

                  I meant neither, except to be humorous. I would agree, of course, that
                  there's no dishonor to be associated with the Copenhagen School. Whether
                  they ultimately succeed or fail, they have already been beneficial to the
                  discipline in that they have challenged many critical assumptions, whether
                  true or false, that have simply been taken for granted for too long. Even
                  so, since their views are still somewhat obscure to those who are new to
                  the subject matter and extremely controversial, it's good to let people know
                  where they're coming from.

                  Stephen Carlson

                  --
                  Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
                  Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
                  "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
                • Ian Hutchesson
                  ... Sorry, Stephen. There have been numerous posts on lists I subscribe to that make rash statements about the so-called Copenhagen School. It seemed as though
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 3, 1999
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                    At 22.53 03/01/99 -0500, Stephen Carlson wrote:
                    >At 01:10 AM 1/4/99 +0100, Ian Hutchesson wrote:
                    >>At 17.25 03/01/99 -0500, Stephen Carlson wrote:
                    >>>At 05:12 PM 1/3/99 +0000, Jim West wrote:
                    >>>>I wasnt denying the usefulness of source criticism. I was merely denying
                    >>>>that the old JEDP theory is virtually dead among many OT scholars.
                    >>>
                    >>>It is still virtually dead among those OT scholars who are not members of
                    >>>the Copenhagen School or, on the other end of the spectrum, Jewish and
                    >>>Christian conservatives who still hold to Mosaic authorship?
                    >>>
                    >>This was not at all an intelligent post of yours, Stephen.
                    >
                    >Ian, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Aside from a
                    >typo, which may have made things unclear to you (I meant "Is it" not
                    >"It is), I was simply asking a question. I would like to know which
                    >scholars outside of two identifiable schools of thought discount the
                    >Documentary Hypothesis.
                    >
                    >If you happen to know of any, please post.

                    Sorry, Stephen. There have been numerous posts on lists I subscribe to that
                    make rash statements about the so-called Copenhagen School.

                    It seemed as though there was a mistaken assumption in your statements that
                    people who "follow" this school support the old JEDP theory, which is
                    patently misguided.


                    Ian
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