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Re: Bernard and Baloney

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  • Nathan Pinard
    ... Bill Pinard- My study and understanding of the four gospel s chronology is that Jesus was crucified on friday April 7, 30 AD/Nisan 14, 783 AUC. ... Bill
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 31 10:03 PM
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      >Subject: Bernard and Baloney
      >Sent: 10/31/98 12:58 PM
      >Received: 10/31/98 9:16 PM
      >From: Tom Simms, tsimms@...
      >Reply-To: Tom Simms, tsimms@...
      >To: Crosstalk, crosstalk@...
      >Bernard -
      >The 36 CE date for the Crucifixion came, for me, from Hugh J.
      >Schonfield's _The Pentecost Revolution_., particularly Chapter 3,
      >Time Factors, pp.45-55. His argument is recapitulated from
      >earlier scholars such as Theodor Keim, Schenkel, Hausrath and
      >Kirsopp Lake. So it's not new.
      Bill Pinard-

      My study and understanding of the four gospel's chronology is that Jesus
      was crucified on friday April 7, 30 AD/Nisan 14, 783 AUC.

      >Moreover, there is a footnote of Feldman's (Loeb JA XVIIII, 90,
      >ix. p.) quoted on dating the visit by Vitellius to Jerusalem.
      >"When Vitellius paid his first visit to jerusalem he had already
      >sent Marcellus to take temporary charge of Jewish affairs after
      >he had ordered Pilate to go to Rome. It is incredible, there-
      >fore, that this visit should have been at the Passover of 36 when
      >Pilate did not leave Palestine until at least six months later.
      >If there was a feast at the time of the legate's visit it must
      >have been one of the Autumn's festivals, possibly Jewish New
      >Year's Day in September, which would have been an appropriate
      >occasion for returning the high priest's robes to Jewish custody
      >and appointing a new high priest."
      >I send the above and pass on the facts of the occurrences of the
      >Jewish Sabbatical Year in 33-4 and the Roman Census Year in 34-5.
      >The Sabbatical gave the population time to hear John preach and
      >then also Jesus. The second, with it's added burden of a noxious
      >tax, made people eager for Jesus' message of a New Kingdom. Thus
      >the remarks against Tax-collectors and about tribute to Caesar.
      >They'd not have been topical earlier.
      >Further, Jesus started His ministry while John the Baptist lived,
      >yet ended it shortly after John the Baptist's death. There seems
      >no argument from the texts that Jesus' work took more than three
      >seasons. The Baptist's death tell you at which Passover the
      >Ministry of Jesus ended. It was in 36.
      Bill Pinard comments-
      My understanding of the four gospel's chronology is that John baptized
      Jesus on Tishri 10, 779/26 AD. John's death is sometime in the summer of
      781/28 AD probably when Jesus was travelling in "his own country"
      Nazareth as recorded in Mark 6:4-6 and Matthew 13:54-58.

      >This does not contradict John's Gospel mention of 46 years after
      >the start of the reconstruction of the Temple in 17 BCE. Was it
      >from the time the altar was restored to use, or from the dedica-
      >tion of the temple itself, i.e. the parts elevated above the
      >Platform of the Mount, or was it from the completion of the whole
      >walled structure itself? The reference presents to many problems
      >to be usefulful.
      >The death of John the Baptist now fits clearly in 35. Too many
      >scholars now take that view.
      Bill Pinard comments-
      The core problem is determining the true chronology of the four gospels;
      which is what Griesback failed to resolve and therefore stated that "to
      this heresy I confess" (i.e., that the four canonical gospels were not in
      agreement as to their chronologies and therefore could not be accepted as
      true historical records of actual eyewitnesses).

      It is a real problem for the fundamentalists because one cannot have
      conflicting chronologies on one hand while at the same time espousing the
      inerrancy of scripture.

      Griesback's generation failed in their efforts to solve the synoptic
      problem and in so doing laid the groundwork for a redefinition of the
      term "synoptic problem" to be that of the literary
      agreements/disagreements found between the synoptic gospels of

      Therefore, the nineteenth century saw the rise of higher criticism with a
      plethora of hypotheses. And it continues to this day.

      >Moreover, the First Pentecost created enough uproar that Pilate
      >reacted against the Samaritans. This time there were many
      >victims but even more survivors to petition Vitellius. He acted.
      >He sent Pilate to Rome. That's the last we hear of him!
      >Tom Simms
      >BTW, Bernard
      > I posted to Crosstalk three times on this very matter on the
      > 4th and 5th of August this year. The only addition I have
      > is my point _contra_ about the notice from John of 46 years.
      > I have no firm date for the COMPLETION of the Temple. Until
      > we are sure of what date John's reported Jewish comment
      > against Jesus meant we can say nothing.
      > Had you searched Crosstalk's archives you might have steered
      > your course more profitably.
      Bill Pinard comments-

      I remember reading in a commentary that there are some two hundred plus
      chronologies of the gospel; and of course those could all be reduced down
      into three to five basic groups. It seems that no one can agree on

      Would you be kind enough to send me your posts of 4-5 august?

      Thank you,
      Bill Pinard
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