Re: Synagogues and Observance
- On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:13:26 -0700, Robert.Schacht@... writes:
>Bob has paraded that he is totally ubnaware of the sea change
>This list used to have a quasi-inerrantist member, name of Stevan Davies,
>who used to say that he was a simple man, and that if the texts said
>something over and over, then it could be true. Now this person has become
>possessed by a minimalist (nothing accepted until proved) demon, who makes
>him say things like:
that has taken place in biblical Studies, courtesy of the full
ecposure of the Dead Sea Scrolls, especially when he writes the
following apragraph which is simply "hot air". Don't you know,
Bob, that the Massora, aka Luther's Bible OT, KJV, only began its
final collection after 70 CE and the final editing perhaps began
in 132 CE. IOW, Jesus did not know the Massora!
>Isn't that a bit like saying no one venerated the NT before the NT cameNow, see what the _Britannica_ was saying about Ezra SIXTY YEARS
>into being? True, the Torah went through at least 4 editions before it
>stabilized, perhaps in the time of Ezra. But by the first century,
>everyone-- in Alexandria, Judea, Galilee, the DSS, the Septuagint-- were
>using the same Torah with only minor variations (comparable, perhaps, to
>the differences between the NRSV and the REB).
" History tells nothing about making the Old Testament Canon.
_2 Esdras_ tells us that the Babylonians burnt The Law. But _2
Esdras_ came into being near the end of the First Century A.D.
It's not a current account. _2 Esdras_ then tells us that Ezra,
at his own request, wanted to rewrite The Law. In forty days he
dictated 94 books to five scribes. He set forth the 24 books of
the Old Testament and 70 apocryphal books. _2 Esdras_ tells us
Ezra's versions were superior to the previous versions.
This legend tells nothing about a completion of the Canon or
collection or dedication of sacred books. Writers among the
Church Fathers infer from _2 Esdras_ that Ezra restored the lost
Old Testament books. Yet _2 Macc.ii, 13_ refers to the library
of Nehemiah. It might be another source. But the reference
occurs in a late and untrustworthy section of the book.
The modern idea that Ezra closed the Old Testament Canon
appears shortly before the Thirteenth Century A.D. From this
time the legend grew. Elias Levita (1538), and especially
Johannes Buxtorf (1665) retailed the story. The "men of the
Great Synagogue", named in the legend, were a doubtful body.
With Ezra as president, so the story goes, they collected the
books. Then they restored the text. Finally, they divided the
material into The Law, the Prophets and the Writings. Through
the reputation of Levita and Buxtorf, this view gained general
currency. However, it rests on no authority in antiquity what-
>Sweet dreams,Isn't Bob nice when he thinks he's got Steve in a corner? Pity.
Yr Resident Curmudgeon,
- In a letter remarkably rude, for him, Bob Schact wrote:
> And then of course there is the matter of all the mentions ofAhh yes.
> synagogues in Galilee, in all four gospels, such as....
1. The Evangelists thought that there surely were synagogues
in Galilee as in the myriad regions inhabited in part by Ioudaioi.
They were mistaken except insofar as places with large populations
probably held synagogues for Ioudaioi as was the case in most
places outside Judea. One does not assume, I think, that the
Evangelists were familiar with Galilee and its customs and
the architectural features of its villages.
2. There were places of assembly in Galilee called "places of
assembly" by Greek speaking people. Jesus spoke at such
places. Not unreasonble to think.
Yet the presumption that if there was a 'synagogue' we know
from that fact that 'in that synagogue they studied the Law
of the Judeans with reverence' does not follow.
- At 08:20 PM 10/31/98 -0400, Stevan Davies wrote:
>In a letter remarkably rude, for him, Bob Schact wrote:Steve,
>> And then of course there is the matter of all the mentions of
>> synagogues in Galilee, in all four gospels, such as....
Several others wrote to me off-list who seem to have understood my remarks
the way I intended them to be understood, but I am sorry that my attempt at
banter was misperceived, and apologize to you for any maladroit rudeness on
>Ahh yes.My post on this issue, which crossed yours in cyberspace, deals with these
>1. The Evangelists thought that there surely were synagogues
>in Galilee as in the myriad regions inhabited in part by Ioudaioi.
>They were mistaken except insofar as places with large populations
>probably held synagogues for Ioudaioi as was the case in most
>places outside Judea. One does not assume, I think, that the
>Evangelists were familiar with Galilee and its customs and
>the architectural features of its villages.
>2. There were places of assembly in Galilee called "places of
>assembly" by Greek speaking people. Jesus spoke at such
>places. Not unreasonble to think.
>Yet the presumption that if there was a 'synagogue' we know
>from that fact that 'in that synagogue they studied the Law
>of the Judeans with reverence' does not follow.
matters somewhat. Thanks for your response.
"Grace danceth. I would pipe; dance ye all. Amen. To the Universe belongs
the Dancer -- Amen. He who does not dance does not know what happens -- Amen.
Now if you follow my dance, see yourself in Me who am speaking. . . .
You who dance, consider what I do, for yours is this passion of Man which I
am to suffer. For you could by no means have understood what you suffer if
I had not been sent to you, as Logos of the Father."
--The Acts of John, Chapters 94-96