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Re: Biblical Eons

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  • VictorM
    ... On the contrary, no one has ever observed the expansion of the universe. We NEVER detect the angular separation of distant galaxies increasing, from one
    Message 1 of 56 , Jan 2, 2012
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      > Dark energy was INFERRED from the VISIBLE fact that the expansion of the
      > universe is accelerating.

      On the contrary, no one has ever observed the expansion of the universe. We NEVER detect the angular separation of distant galaxies increasing, from one date to another. (We do observe knots emerging from tohu bohu point sources from one year to another both in our galaxy and in nearby galaxies.

      The process scientists use started with the scientific first principle.

      1. Scientists detected that all atomic clocks from the distant universe visibly clocked different frequencies (colors) than local atoms. In general, the most distant galaxies shone at the lowest ratios compared to the rate of modern (local) atoms -0 down in the microwave and infrared.

      2. Since this is a clear violation of science's first principle, it is simply not permitted. So scientists speculated about how the vacuum of space time (a never observed entity) is stretching out the universe's vacuum.

      3. How much simpler it is to question a mere assumption than to fill they universe up with magical, undetectable space-time.

      > > No constants are visible in the whole universe.
      > >
      > Perhaps not, but the speed of light appears invariant and there are a
      > number of near-constants.

      Light is FUNDAMENTAL. When Elohim created the Earth, at first it was without form, not extended in space. Then He continued to command light to continue to be. It was then that atoms were formed as a relation with light.

      All observations and even measurements are ultimately referenced to light, since matter itself is a relation with light.

      Light is self referential.
      Scientists contrive their notion of linear clocks with their assumption that atoms dither with perpetual motion.
      Then they contrive units of length using the same assumption, that cesium atoms dither with perpetual motion.
      Then they contrive tens of thousands of other units and constants, all based on the visibly false assumption that atoms are immutable and dither with perpetual motion.
      The entire empirical house of cards was built on a single dogmatic assumption, which is visibly false in billions of galaxies, that atoms intrinsically remain the same.

      > > No orbits are following the laws of physics in billions of galaxies. Streams of stars moved out from originally naked cores as the atomic clocks also kept changing.
      > >
      > BILGE! LYING bilge!

      Our ancestors described and measured orbits unlike what we measure today in the solar system, planets gradually spreading apart.

      We see the history of galaxies, that the stars in individual galaxies (and in galaxy clusters) spread out, moved outward, rotate out more, accelerated out more, as billions of galaxies grew into huge growth spirals. What is visible is contrary to every scientific theory of gravity. Yet it is visible, and what is visible is EXACTLY what the Bible states about cosmic history - that He placed the Sun, Moon and stars in the spreading place, the raqiya.

      > > Since this is unscientific, just like a growing earth is unscientific, scientists must make up ad hoc stories about undetectable dark energy and the earth eating its crust without disturbing the sediments over the crust.
      > >
      > It is YOU who is making up ad hoc stories in an effort to assuage your
      > envy. And I guarantee two things:
      > 1. You never converted a Jesuit physicist to your views.
      > 2. You never stuck around long enough to really try.
      > --
      > Dave Oldridge
      > Skype: daveoldridge
      > Ham Radio: VA7CZ

      Look, a child can look at the globe and see that North and South America used to be united.

      I am not trying to convert Jesuits. I am merely pointing out the the VISIBLE evidence clearly contradicts the speculative principle upon which western science itself was contrived, the notion that matter is NOT INTRINSICALLY changing. We observe in the light from billions of galaxies that the inherent properties change in an orderly relational manner throughout cosmic history.

      How complete will be the triumph of the Word of God over science, the system that was built on the very same idea the Bible predicted for the false teachers (literally mockers) of the last days.

    • VictorM
      People in the Old Testament era could not imagine that time is substance-like because that idea was popularized much later by Christians. For centuries
      Message 56 of 56 , May 18, 2013
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        People in the Old Testament era could not imagine that time is
        substance-like because that idea was popularized much later by
        Christians. For centuries Europeans studied the Bible in Latin that did
        not have a tenseless verb like the Greek aorist or the untensed biblical
        Hebrew verbs. The western tradition affected the exegesis of the Bible
        as they interpreted it using new ideas about time. One of the effects
        of interpreting the Bible with western tensed grammars is the age of
        the universe dichotomy. If creationists would accept the text in the
        grammar and epistemic system of a contemporary, they could see that
        galactic history as the strongest evidence for a literal creation.

        All early people believed in geological eons in few years. Job 14 lists
        the geological events that passed during the lives of Noah's
        grandsons. One of Job's life-span markers was: the Mediterranean
        dried. Indeed drill cores show that the Mediterranean dried repeatedly.
        According to scientific estimates, the last drying was 5 million years
        ago. According to the Bible, Job lived about 4500 years ago, during the
        dinosaur age. Job also mentioned how their faces changed before they
        died. If we lived for eons, our skulls would grow Neanderthal features.
        Neanderthal children had skulls like moderns, which supports Job's
        statement that their faces changed (doubled) before they died.

        We directly compare billions of galaxies at many ranges. The fact that
        the universe is eons old is clearly visible in galactic history. Hebrew
        11:3 By faith we are apprehending that the plural eons were passively
        equipped by the command of God out of things unseen.

        What unseen thing allowed eons to passively form? We use the word
        gravity to explain why the Earth orbits the Sun. However, the cause of
        the gravitational phenomena is invisible. Perhaps He formed the plural
        eons by establishing the gravitational phenomena long ago.

        What is gravity? Gravity theories are based on assumptions. The best
        way to test gravity theories is to compare visible galactic history
        with a theory's predictions. We observe that the earliest galaxies
        were often tiny and naked, sometimes surrounded by equally spaced globs
        with different spectral colors than the core. At many ranges we observe
        how the globs accelerate outward, taking up more space, changing their
        spectral frequencies as the stars accelerated out forming growth
        spirals. The star streams move opposite from Newton or Einstein's

        If what we see in the distance is real, then Earth's orbit should
        also accelerate. Over the centuries, astronomers measured with angles a
        decreasing solar parallax. Thirty five hundred years ago, our ancestors
        mentions close planet passages and the shattering of a nearby planet,
        which the Bible also records. The solar system contains tens of
        thousands broken planet pieces in the form of comets and asteroids.
        They contain rocks whose crystals formed deep underground in volcanic
        conditions and sedimentary rocks like cubanite that formed in warm
        liquid water. Evidently a planet was smashed just like our ancestors
        claimed a few thousand years ago.

        A scientist might insist that they measure clock-like orbits, which
        prohibits planet collisions 4000 years ago. In 1970 NASA sent calibrated
        clocks out of the solar system on Pioneers 10 and 11. Their clock
        signals, transmitted from the past, kept changing with distance,
        relative to NASA's hydrogen maser clocks of the moment. The Pioneer
        clocks changed with distance at the Hubble ratio, which astronomers use
        to estimate the distance to galaxies using their light clock rates.
        Clocks from the past are running slower than modern clocks. Some
        distant light-clocks, observed with telescopes, clocked about 7% of the
        frequencies emitted by modern atoms.

        We need a gravity theory based on biblical principles to account for why
        orbits visibly accelerate throughout cosmic history.

        1. The Bible plainly states that the creation is enslaved to change.
        Paul used orderly submission and together verbs to describe this
        deterioration in Romans 8:19 - 22
        . We observe that atoms continue to change relationally by comparing the
        shape and spectra of galaxies at many ranges.

        2. The gravitational phenomena is not a perpetual motion effect, as in
        Newton and Einstein. As atoms change their clock rates, they emit
        invisible gravity. Inertia and the gravitational phenomena were
        different a few millennium ago, which is why giant dinosaurs once
        roamed the Earth. If they were alive today, they would have trouble

        3. Gravitational phenomena do not propagate at infinite speed as in
        Newton's formulas. The aberration effect, the angular offset of the
        Sun's gravity, pulls more on one hemisphere than the other.
        Paraconical pendulum demonstrate that the gravitational effect from the
        Sun and Moon vary depending on the positions of those distant objects.
        The aberration of gravity accelerates both days and years, pushing the
        earth (and all the planets) outwards in their orbits. It also
        accelerates the earth's spin so that the ratio between days and
        years stays about the same. The aberration of gravity also causes the
        distances between consecutive planets to increase logarithmically (the
        Titius Bode effect). It is not time that is accelerating, but rather
        orbits and rotations relative to their previous states, not relative to

        Someone might insist that there is a balance between the Earth's
        inertia and the pull of the Sun's gravity. If one of them were to
        change, the earth would be ejected from the solar system. Relational
        change is where everything changes in parallel, together. You cannot
        model relational changes with mathematics. Mathematical models are
        based on the notion that atoms are perpetual motion engines. The
        effects of relational changes are visible. We observe how billions of
        galaxies intrinsically grew into growth spirals.

        Lift up your eyes and look at galactic history. How great will be the
        triumph of the Word of God over science.


        This cylinder seal from Kish is in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. It
        depicts a common theme from 4000 years ago, a battle between planet
        gods. We know they are planets because they are wearing hats with horns,
        perhaps depictions of ice rings or the crescent shapes when a planet is
        at an angle from the sun. Two planet gods are down and being brained
        with maces. One planet god has gripped the horned hat of another and has
        raised his mace. The Bible condemns the worshiping of planet gods,
        however, it uses similar words as the pagans to describe a planet

        Victor, Changing Earth Creationist

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