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An argument Jon Gary Williams should NOT use

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  • Todd S. Greene
    Hi, everyone. At http://www.hattoncoc.org/bulletin48.html we see Church Of Christ member Jon Gary Williams claim that evolution does not fit the evidence. The
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 12, 2003
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      Hi, everyone.

      At http://www.hattoncoc.org/bulletin48.html we see Church Of Christ
      member Jon Gary Williams claim that "evolution does not fit the
      evidence. The only place to go to find concrete, empirical evidence
      for evolution would be the fossil record. However, there is not a
      single case of a transitional form!"

      This argument is so bad that even the young earth creationist group
      called Answers in Genesis has advised fellow young earth creationists
      against using this argument:

      Arguments we think creationists should NOT use
      http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp

      Here are several detailed discussions on the subject of transitional
      fossils:

      The Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation"
      Mammal-Like Reptiles
      http://www.gcssepm.org/special/cuffey_05.htm

      Horse Evolution
      http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/horses/horse_evol.html

      A Critical Look at Creationist Paleontology
      http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/tran.htm

      Taxonomy, Transitional Forms, and the Fossil Record
      http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Miller.html

      Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ
      http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

      On Creation Science and "Transitional Fossils"
      http://www.tim-thompson.com/trans-fossils.html

      Fossil Hominids: The Evidence for Human Evolution
      http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

      Re: New transitional fossil
      http://www.asa3.org/archive/evolution/199807/0020.html

      Of course - never fear! - since young earth creationists possess an
      attitude of obstinately promoting error and have little respect for
      the truth, we should remain confident that they will continue to
      promote this wrong argument for at least another twenty years. This
      is not cynicism, but reality. Golly, we can't even get them to admit
      the trivial fact that Peter Frenzen did NOT say that the erosional
      gorge formed at Mt. St. Helens following its eruption was a hardrock
      canyon!

      Chuckling,
      Todd Greene
      http://www.creationism.cc/
    • rlbaty50
      ... It is, indeed, most fascinating that such a matter remains unresolved while Buff, the alleged reformer, has specific knowledge relative to his
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 12, 2003
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        --- In creationism@yahoogroups.com, "Todd S. Greene" <greeneto@y...>
        wrote, in part:

        > (W)e can't even get them (i.e. Buff Scott, Jr., the
        > alleged reformer) to admit the trivial fact that Peter
        > Frenzen did NOT say that the erosional gorge formed at
        > Mt. St. Helens following its eruption was a hardrock
        > canyon!

        It is, indeed, most fascinating that such a matter remains unresolved
        while Buff, the alleged reformer, has specific knowledge relative to
        his misrepresentations of Peter Frenzen, the National Geographic, and
        Loowitt Falls Canyon on Mt. St. Helens.

        I just checked again. YES, here it is December 12, 2003 and the
        following is still up on Buff's website:

        > http://www.mindspring.com/~renewal/Canyon.html

        > Mount St. Helens vs. The Grand Canyon

        > Mount St. Helens erupted on May 18, 1980.

        > Some years later, a monument scientist (Peter Frenzen)
        > examined the hardrock canyon, created by the eruption,
        > and remarked,

        > > "You'd expect a hardrock canyon to be thousands, even
        > > hundreds of thousands of years old. But this one was
        > > cut in less than a decade."
        > > (National Geographic, May, 2000).

        > Rick Presley, a knowledgeable student of geology, says,
        > "Pretty convincing evidence that the Grand Canyon didn't
        > take millions of years to form. If you can research it out,
        > Mount St. Helens has proven to be a huge geologic laboratory
        > that has overturned a great many uniformitarian assumptions."

        Does anybody know anything about what Buff is up to regarding that
        matter. Is it true he's pulling a "Bert" on us and is just going to
        leave what he knows is erroneous on his website? From what I have
        observed Buff has pretty much gone into hiding regarding the matter
        and his supporters have very effectively circled the wagons around
        his hideout(s).

        Considering Buff's competition with Bert, I guess this will put him
        right up there in Bert's league concerning such things. What stellar
        examples (Buff & Bert) that the critics of "young-earth, creation-
        science" are quite right when it comes to some of the men pushing
        that hobby.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty
      • Dave Oldridge
        ... You forgot the following: http://www.rtis.com/nat/user/elsberry/evobio/evc/argresp/tranform.ht ml Watch the split line and type the ml on the end....
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 12, 2003
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          On 12 Dec 2003 at 8:42, Todd S. Greene wrote:

          > Hi, everyone.
          >
          > At http://www.hattoncoc.org/bulletin48.html we see Church Of Christ
          > member Jon Gary Williams claim that "evolution does not fit the
          > evidence. The only place to go to find concrete, empirical evidence
          > for evolution would be the fossil record. However, there is not a
          > single case of a transitional form!"
          >
          > This argument is so bad that even the young earth creationist group
          > called Answers in Genesis has advised fellow young earth
          > creationists against using this argument:
          >
          > Arguments we think creationists should NOT use
          > http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp
          >
          > Here are several detailed discussions on the subject of transitional
          > fossils:
          >
          > The Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation"
          > Mammal-Like Reptiles
          > http://www.gcssepm.org/special/cuffey_05.htm
          >
          > Horse Evolution
          > http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/horses/horse_evol.html
          >
          > A Critical Look at Creationist Paleontology
          > http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/tran.htm
          >
          > Taxonomy, Transitional Forms, and the Fossil Record
          > http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Miller.html
          >
          > Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ
          > http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
          >
          > On Creation Science and "Transitional Fossils"
          > http://www.tim-thompson.com/trans-fossils.html
          >
          > Fossil Hominids: The Evidence for Human Evolution
          > http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/
          >
          > Re: New transitional fossil
          > http://www.asa3.org/archive/evolution/199807/0020.html

          You forgot the following:

          http://www.rtis.com/nat/user/elsberry/evobio/evc/argresp/tranform.ht
          ml

          Watch the split line and type the ml on the end....
        • Todd S. Greene
          Hi, everyone. I submitted an edited version of my post #16061 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/creationism/message/16061 to the guestbook at the Hatton Church Of
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 12, 2003
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            Hi, everyone.

            I submitted an edited version of my post #16061

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/creationism/message/16061

            to the guestbook at the Hatton Church Of Christ website (
            http://www.hattoncoc.org/bulletin48.html ). Upon submission, I get
            the message "Your entry has been recorded. Your entry won't be listed
            until the site owner has approved it." It will be interesting to see
            if the site owner has the integrity to present the criticism of the
            erroneous article by Jon Gary Williams.

            Regards,
            Todd Greene
            http://www.creationism.cc/
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