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Re: [creationevolutiondebate] Survey of Religion in America

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  • Ron Hooft
    ... I ve heard all kinds of answers from they were only the first two created, but others were created at the same time , to genetics being different in the
    Message 1 of 173 , Nov 1, 2001
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      > Have to check that... But maybe that's it huh. They
      > just did it with the
      > daughters. Maybe a YEC person can set us right if it
      > wasn't that way.

      I've heard all kinds of answers from "they were only
      the first two created, but others were created at the
      same time", to genetics being different in the
      begining so that inbreeding didn't cause problems of
      degridaton.

      The genetics answers seems completly contrived, of
      course, and the "other people" theory also has the
      problem of being unfounded in the bible. Also it has
      the added problem of meaning that there was a genetic
      line that would not have been effected by Adam and
      Eve's original sin.

      Enough holes in genesis to drive a truck through.

      > That was Lot and the girls. One of my favorite bible
      > stories and one I like
      > to start discussing when the girls from the JW knock
      > at the door.

      Oh you have those in your neck of the out back too? :)
      There's no getting away from them is there?

      Earlier in
      > the piece, mind you, he wanted to hand the girls out
      > to the men in town for
      > sex, so it's a surprise that they wanted him so bad
      > later. i guess they
      > didn't know about it....

      Well if he doesn't know he's having sex with his
      daughters then I suppose it's possible they didn't
      know he was trying to pimp them out.

      > > Inbreeding seems to be just ok with god.
      >
      > Seems to be a lot of rules about it, but it gets
      > complicated as to who you
      > can do it with.

      Most of the rules deal with ownership. If a son goes
      with his mother he is defiling his fathers property.
      He in effect uncovers his fathers nakedness which is a
      sin. Adultry is treated the same way. It was theft of
      another man's wife. That was why it was wrong and for
      no higher moral reason that I can tell.

      Ron

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    • Dave Oldridge
      ... Corrections: Genesis is about 3000 years old and the OFFICIAL Church doctrine is: 390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but
      Message 173 of 173 , Nov 14, 2001
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        On 14 Nov 2001 at 16:04, Chip Atchison wrote:

        > --- In creationevolutiondebate@y..., "LAlbert" <lalbert001@e...>
        >
        > With all this stuff about science pushing religion out of schools, I
        > have also tried to tell my religious friends that religion is done a
        > very good job at pushing people away on it's own...
        >
        > Let me cite some examples...
        >
        > 1. Genesis is around 4,000 years old and the 'offical' church
        > doctrine still states the earth was created in six days and the earth
        > is only 6,000 years old. Many religious people I know don't believe it
        > and believe the word 'day' is not really an earth day but a time
        > period.

        Corrections: Genesis is about 3000 years old and the OFFICIAL Church doctrine is:

        "390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval
        event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.[264] Revelation gives us the
        certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed
        by our first parents.[265]"

        Nor are the first two chapters thought to refer to literal days and nights.



        >
        > 2. People still have the conflict with how can God be so powerful and
        > still let genocide and terrorism occur. The answers provided by some
        > religious leaders doesn't make sense to some people.
        >
        > Some my comment is that unless the current religious leaders update
        > their views, they will drive away as many people from God as they say
        > science takes away from God. In short, religion is it's own worse
        > enemy...
        >
        > chip
        >
        >
        >
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Chris Ashcraft
        > > To: creationevolutiondebate@y...
        > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 8:09 PM
        > > Subject: [creationevolutiondebate] Survey of Religion in America
        > >
        > >
        > > According to the following survey the number of adults
        > > in the U.S identifying with no religion has doubled
        > > since 1990 from 14.3 million (8%) in 1990 to the
        > > current 29.4 million (14.1%).
        > >
        > > The scientific community is almost totally atheist,
        > > and teaching their philosophy as fact.
        > >
        > > Leon: While a philosophy may be used to define and
        > interpret "facts," it is not itself a fact.
        > >
        > >
        > > Organismal
        > > evolution is being used to substantiate that life has
        > > simply developed on its own, and our existence
        > > unreliant upon a diety.
        > >
        > >
        > > Leon: The organic theory of evolution, being a scientific theory,
        > does not address the issue of any role played by the supernatural in
        > the development of life, or the reliance of our existence upon it. >
        > > > Any attempts to introduce > alternative views are blocked, and
        > they will > indoctrinate our population if left unchallenged. > > >
        > Leon: It is alltogether reasonable that supernaturalistic
        > "explanations" are not to be allowed within the naturalistic
        > philosophy of science. It is the attempt to introduce
        > religious/supernaturalistic doctrine into science that constitutes
        > indoctrination. The defense of the existential postulates that
        > underlie science can only be loosely compared, at best, to the defense
        > of dogmatic religious doctrine. > > > Although there are many
        > factors involved, the > pervasive teaching of evolution is almost
        > certainly > the principal influence affecting the rise of atheism >
        > in our country. > > > Leon: 1) The survey cited asked only about
        > non-identification with any religion, not about atheism.
        > Non-identification with a religion is not equivalent to an assertion
        > of atheism. 2) At the popular level, most who say they "believe" in
        > evolution identify with some form of theistic evolution. 3) Thus,
        > equating a "belief" in evolution with atheism is a false equation. 4)
        > Given the on-going low quality and small time devoted to the teaching
        > of evolution, such can hardly be regarded as "pervasive." > > >
        > Ashcraft's sloppy thinking and sectarian paranoia to the contrary, the
        > purely atheistic conception of the theory of evolution remains pretty
        > much confined to the relatively small community of scientific
        > thinkers. The vast majority remain, like him, comfortably and
        > blissfully ignorant of the nature of science generally and
        > evolutionary theory particularly. > > Leon Albert > >
        > =================================== > >
        > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/011025/nyth023_1.html > > Thursday
        > October 25, 11:00 am Eastern Time > > Press Release > > SOURCE:
        > Graduate Center of the City University of New > York > > Graduate
        > Center Survey of Religion in America > Complements U.S. Census > >
        > NEW YORK, Oct. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Fifty-two percent of > adults in
        > America are Protestant, 24.5% are Catholic, > and 14.1% adhere to no
        > religion, according to the > latest American Religious
        > Identification Survey, 2001 > (``ARIS 2001'') just released by The
        > Graduate Center > of the City University of New York. Those giving
        > their > religion as Jewish are 1.3% and those as Muslim or >
        > Islamic are 0.5%. > > With a sample of over 50,000 randomly selected
        > > respondents aged 18 or over, ARIS 2001 is the most >
        > comprehensive portrait of religious identification > in the U.S.
        > today. First conducted in 1990 and > repeated this year, the survey
        > fills a gap left by the > Census, which does not ask about religion.
        > Nearly 95% > of those interviewed were willing to indicate their >
        > religious identification and views on important > questions about
        > their beliefs. The findings, weighted > to be representative of the
        > 208 million U.S. adult > population, include national and
        > state-by-state > examinations of religious identification in
        > relation > to racial/ethnic identification, education, age, >
        > marital status, voter registration status and > political party
        > preference. The complete report will > be available on The Graduate
        > Center's web site at > http://www.gc.cuny.edu/folio/index.htm > >
        > ARIS 2001 is closely modeled on The Graduate Center's > 1990
        > National Survey of Religious Identification > (NSRI), permitting
        > many comparisons: > > Catholic adults increased from 46.0
        > million to > nearly 50.8 million, but their proportion in the >
        > population fell by nearly two percentage points. > Although
        > Protestant and other non-Catholic > denominations remain the
        > majority, with more than > 105.4 million adult adherents, their
        > proportion slid > sharply from 60% to 52%. > 2.8 million
        > adults give their religion as Jewish, > down from about 3.1 million
        > in 1990. Another 2.5 > million, who say they have no religion or
        > identify > with another religion, are of Jewish parentage, were >
        > raised Jewish or consider themselves Jewish. > The number of
        > adults who identify with a > non-Christian religion rose sharply,
        > from about 5.8 > million to 7.7 million. However, their proportion >
        > remains small, 3.7% up from 3.3% in 1990. > Muslim/Islamic
        > adults total 1.1 million -- nearly > double the number in 1990.
        > Those identifying their > race as black are 23% of the group; the
        > others > overwhelmingly identify as white or Asian. > > One of the
        > most striking 1990-2001 comparisons is the > more than doubling of
        > the adult population identifying > with no religion, from 14.3
        > million (8%) in 1990 to > the current 29.4 million (14.1%). The 1990
        > figure may > be downwardly biased due to a slight change in the >
        > wording of the key survey question in 2001. In seeking > a more
        > accurate measure of identification, the clause > ``if any'' was
        > added this year to the question, ``What > religion do you identify
        > with?'' The prior wording may > have subtly prompted respondents to
        > name some > religion. > > ARIS 2001 goes further than its
        > predecessor in > investigating such new territory as membership in a
        > > place of worship, change of religious identification > over
        > one's lifetime, and religion of the spouse or > partner of
        > respondents. Findings reveal, among other > things, a huge gap
        > between religious identification > and affiliation with a place of
        > worship. Although 81% > of America's adults identify with a
        > religion, only 54% > reside in a household where anyone belongs to a
        > > church, temple, synagogue, mosque or other place of > worship.
        > About 20% of those who say they have no > religion (including many
        > atheists and agnostics) > nevertheless report that they or someone
        > else in their > household is a member of a religious congregation. >
        > About 40% of adults who describe themselves as > ``religious''
        > report no membership in any religious > congregation. Other
        > noteworthy findings: > > Catholics are the majority in Rhode
        > Island (51%) > and the largest single category in Massachusetts >
        > (44%); Mormons are the majority in Utah (51%) and > Baptists are the
        > majority in Mississippi (55%). > New York is home to more of
        > America's Jews (25%) > and Muslims (24%) than any other state. New
        > York is > also home to the largest percent of the nations >
        > Taoists (26%), and Greek Orthodox (17%). > California has the
        > highest percent of the nations > Jehovah's Witnesses (17%) as well
        > as of Hindus (30%). > California also has the nations largest
        > cluster of > those with no religion (15%). > Pennsylvania has
        > the largest number of the > nation's Mennonites (18%) while
        > Wisconsin has the > largest clustering of Lutherans (10%). >
        > The median age of all adults is 43 years. For > Catholics it is 42,
        > for Jews its is 51, and for > Muslims it is 28. The median age of
        > those who identify > with no religion is 36 years. > Married
        > adults and others living in a couple > relationship are most likely
        > to have a spouse or a > partner of a different faith if they are
        > Episcopalian > (50%) or Buddhist (47%). > Jehovah's Witnesses
        > have the highest proportion > of female adherents (68%), followed by
        > Church of God > (64%); the highest proportion of male adherents is >
        > among Muslims (62%) and Buddhists (61%). > Adherents of
        > Assemblies of God are the most apt > to describe themselves as
        > Republicans (59%); Jews are > the most Democrat-leaning (56%), and
        > Buddhists are the > most independent with respect to political party
        > > preference (48%). > Black adults are most likely to give
        > their > religion as Baptist (47%) or as no religion (11%); >
        > Native Americans are most likely to give their > religion as
        > Baptists (20%) or as no religion (19%). > Hispanics are most
        > likely to give their religion > as Catholic (57%), followed by no
        > religion (13%). > > The study was directed by Dr. Egon Mayer,
        > Professor of > Sociology at The Graduate Center and Brooklyn
        > College, > and Dr. Barry Kosmin, who also directed the 1990 >
        > religion study, along with research fellow and > demographer Dr.
        > Ariela Keysar. Dr. Kosmin was > co-author, along with now State
        > Senator Seymour > Lachman, of One Nation Under God: Religion in >
        > Contemporary America (Harmony Books, 1993), the widely > referenced
        > book on the 1990 NSRI. He is currently a > visiting professor in the
        > Study of Religions > Department at University College in Chichester,
        > > England. > > As in 1990, the data were gathered on behalf of The
        > > Graduate Center by the ICR Survey Research Group in > Media, PA.
        > The survey was funded by the Posen > Foundation. > > The Graduate
        > Center is the doctorate-granting > institution of The City
        > University of new York. The > only consortium of its kind in the
        > nation, The > Graduate Center draws its faculty of more than 1,600 >
        > members mainly from the CUNY senior colleges and > cultural and
        > scientific institutions throughout New > York City. > > SOURCE:
        > Graduate Center of the City University of New > > > ===== > Chris
        > Ashcraft > Creation Science Resource >
        > http://www.geocities.com/ashcrac > >
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        Dave Oldridge
        ICQ 1800667
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