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Re: [creation_evolution_debate] Answers

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  • s valinote
    OBVIOUSLY,SOMEONE ISN T PAYING ATTENTION ! ... From: To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 4:11 PM
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 1, 2001
      OBVIOUSLY,SOMEONE ISN'T PAYING ATTENTION !
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <pumpatua@...>
      To: <creation_evolution_debate@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 4:11 PM
      Subject: [creation_evolution_debate] Answers


      > Have we and the universe evolved over billions of years or was
      > everything created around 6,000 years ago?
      >
      > BILLIONS Stromatolites - huge bacterial colonies - date to 3.8 BILLION
      > YEARS AGO.
      >
      > The 6000 years is Jewish mythology, other mythologies were not so
      > constricted.
      >
      >
      > Does the fossil record show evolution or sudden creation? EVOLUTION
      >
      > Are there missing links? OF COURSE THERE ARE
      >
      > What about carbon dating? ONLY USEFUL TO 30,000 years
      >
      >
      > What about Lucy?
      >
      > Are the human footprints with dinosaur footprints found
      >
      > in Texas for real? NOPE
      >
      > Does the study of DNA support creation or evolution? EVOLUTION
      >
      >
      > Has there been fraud on either side of the debate? YES look at Texas
      > stuff and Piltdown man.
      >
      > Was there a worldwide
      >
      > flood as claimed in the Bible? NOPE
      >
      > Does Noah's Ark exist? NOPE
      >
      > Does the concept of evolution fit in with the Bible? NOPE the bible is
      > not science.
      >
      > What happened to the dinosaurs?
      > I saw one today, it CAWed at me. The Big dinos were eliminated by the
      > Chicxulub Asteroid hit of 65 Million Years ago.
      >
      > Should both creation and evolution be taught in the schools?
      > NOPE ONLY EVOLUTION
      >
      > How could stars millions of light years away be visible if the
      > universe is only 6,000-10,000
      >
      > years old?
      > THAT IS A PROBLEM WITH CREATIONISM ONLY
      >
      >
      > Did Darwin disavow evolution at the end of his life or is that just an
      > urban myth? NO THAT IS A DOWNRIGHT LIE.
      >
      > Does Loch Ness exist? I DOUBT IT.
      >
      > Why are most scientists evolutionists?
      > BECAUSE IT MAKES THE MOST SENSE OF THE EVIDENCE
      >
      > Is man evolving now? NOT MUCH - CONDITIONS ARE NOT RIPE FOR EVOLUTION,
      > WE ARE TOO SUCESSFULL.
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
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      > This group is open to all and anyone can join this group by sending a
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      > creation_evolution_debate-subscribe@...
      > and then respondng to the email sent to them from egroups.
      >
      >
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      >
    • Nathan Gundlach
      Please note that I am simply presenting my position in the manner in which pumpatua@hotmail.com presented his. Often there are multiple evidences, but I just
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 1, 2001
        Please note that I am simply presenting my position in the manner in which pumpatua@... presented his. Often there are multiple evidences, but I just present one of my favorites, etc.

        At 08:11 PM 6/29/2001 +0000, you wrote:
        Have we and the universe evolved over billions of years or was
        everything created around 6,000 years ago?

        BILLIONS Stromatolites - huge bacterial colonies - date to 3.8 BILLION
        YEARS AGO.

        THOUSANDS Radio-carbon dating is inaccurate at best. The fact that spiral galaxies have retained their shape is compatible with this view.

        The 6000 years is Jewish mythology, other mythologies were not so
        constricted.


        Does the fossil record show evolution or sudden creation? EVOLUTION

        CREATION Each new species appears fully formed.


        Are there missing links? OF COURSE THERE ARE

        NO If you think that there are, please name them.


        What about carbon dating? ONLY USEFUL TO 30,000 years

        Completely unreliable, even for recent dates.

        What about Lucy?

        Think "chimpanzee." Take a look at her feet (I mean the FOSSIL's feet, NOT the statue's).


        Are the human footprints with dinosaur footprints found

        in Texas for real? NOPE

        ABSOLUTELY There are a number of people who claim to have seen them EXCAVATED.


        Does the study of DNA support creation or evolution? EVOLUTION

        CREATION


        Has there been fraud on either side of the debate? YES look at Texas
        stuff and Piltdown man.

        YES, some on both sides, but mostly on the evolutionist. (E.g., the peppered moths, the fetal transformations, etc.)


        Was there a worldwide

        flood as claimed in the Bible? NOPE

        YES


        Does Noah's Ark exist? NOPE

        YES


        Does the concept of evolution fit in with the Bible? NOPE the bible is
        not science.

        NO


        What happened to the dinosaurs?

        After the Flood, the climate was not nearly as beneficial for them, and people killed many of them off.

        I saw one today, it CAWed at me. The Big dinos were eliminated by the
        Chicxulub Asteroid hit of 65 Million Years ago.

        Evidence?


        Should both creation and evolution be taught in the schools?
        NOPE ONLY EVOLUTION

        The facts should be taught. How scientists interpret the facts should also be taught. But philosophic/religious opinions should not be taught as fact.


        How could stars millions of light years away be visible if the
        universe is only 6,000-10,000

        years old?

        The stars are much closer than is normally believed.

        THAT IS A PROBLEM WITH CREATIONISM ONLY


        Did Darwin disavow evolution at the end of his life or is that just an
        urban myth? NO THAT IS A DOWNRIGHT LIE.

        Yep, it's a downright lie.


        Does Loch Ness exist? I DOUBT IT.

        Most definitely! How can you possibly doubt it, when so many TV programs have been aired about it, etc.?


        Why are most scientists evolutionists?
        BECAUSE IT MAKES THE MOST SENSE OF THE EVIDENCE

        Because that is what they are taught, and it is the only option other than Creationism.


        Is man evolving now? NOT MUCH - CONDITIONS ARE NOT RIPE FOR EVOLUTION,
        WE ARE TOO SUCESSFULL.

        Slightly.





        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        This group is open to all and anyone can join this group by sending a blank email to:
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        and then respondng to the email sent to them from egroups.



                

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        Nathan Gundlach
        email: nathan_gundlach@...
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        ICQ number: 102965545

      • Phil Nicholls
        ... From: Nathan Gundlach To: creation_evolution_debate@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [creation_evolution_debate] Answers
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 2, 2001
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Nathan Gundlach
          To: creation_evolution_debate@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 3:03 PM
          Subject: Re: [creation_evolution_debate] Answers


          Please note that I am simply presenting my position in the manner in which
          pumpatua@... presented his. Often there are multiple evidences, but
          I just present one of my favorites, etc.

          At 08:11 PM 6/29/2001 +0000, you wrote:

          Have we and the universe evolved over billions of years or was
          everything created around 6,000 years ago?

          BILLIONS Stromatolites - huge bacterial colonies - date to 3.8 BILLION YEARS
          AGO.

          THOUSANDS Radio-carbon dating is inaccurate at best. The fact that spiral
          galaxies have retained their shape is compatible with this vie

          Radio-carbon dating is NOT inaccurate but it is also NOT of much use to
          paleontology because it's range is restricted to 20,000 to 30,000 years.
          Radiocarbon dates correlate nicely with tree-ring dates that can be extended
          back to nearly 10,000 years.

          Fossils are dated by a variety of methods. Potassium-Argon dating is one.
          Uranium series dating is another. Isochon dating is yet another. All of
          these provide very conclusive evidence that the earth is about 4.5 billion
          years old.

          I have no idea what your bit about spiral galaxies is about but you might
          consider that many spiral galaxies are millions of light years from earth
          which means that their "shape" is not how they look now but how they looked
          when the light waves we now see left them.


          >> The 6000 years is Jewish mythology, other mythologies were not so
          >> constricted.

          The six thousand years is not Jewish mythology, it is based on the
          calculations of Bishop Usshur from biblical genology and many assumptions.

          >> Does the fossil record show evolution or sudden creation? EVOLUTION

          >CREATION Each new species appears fully formed.

          And you are expecting what, half-formed species? However, there are
          fossils that show transitions from earlier species to later species, just as
          there are fossils that show transitions between most of the major groups of
          animals and plants.

          One of my favorites are the therapsids. They have characteristics of
          mammals and reptiles. As a matter of fact, for the sake of classification
          biologists call anything with three bones forming the lower jaw a therapsid
          (reptile) and anything with only one bone forming the lower jaw a mammal.
          One fossil, Diarthrogmathus, has a mammalian and reptilian jaw joint
          side-by-side and both functional.

          Along similar lines, how does creationism explain why the opposium, a very
          primitive mammal, undergoes and interesting development that begins with
          three jaw bones, two of which migrate during development to the inner ear to
          form ear ossicles?

          >>Are there missing links? OF COURSE THERE ARE

          >NO If you think that there are, please name them.

          First, the term "missing link" is stupid. Let's use the term transitional
          fossil instead. A transitional fossil is one that has characteristics that
          are intermediate between two taxa ( between species A and species B or
          between class A and class B).

          Diarthrogmathus (described above) [between reptile-like mammals and
          mammal-like reptiles]
          Theropods [between birds and reptiles]
          Archaeopteryx [a bird with reptilian traits]
          Australopitheicus afarensis [ a hominid with ape-like traits]
          Proconsul africanus [an ape with characteristics of gorillas and chimpanzees
          but which lacks the specialized traits of either one]


          For an extensive list of citations for these missing links, see Roger
          Cuffy's article
          Paleontologic Evidence and Organic Evolution in _Science and Creationism_, a
          booked edited by Ashley Montague.

          Here's a quote:

          "If we read the paleontological literature (especially if with the
          background of professional paleontologic training and experience ...) we
          find that the fossil record cntains many examples of such transitional
          fossils. These connect low-rank taxa (like different species) and high-rank
          taxa (like different classes), in spite of the record's imperfections and in
          spite of the relatively small number of practicing paleontologists.
          Because of the critical role which transitional fossils have played in
          convincing scientists of the occurance of organic evolution, paleontologists
          have been appalled that many otherwise well-informed persons have repeated
          the grossly misinformed assertion that transitional fossils do not exist."

          I have yet to meet a creationist with any training or experience in
          paleontology.

          >>What about carbon dating? ONLY USEFUL TO 30,000 years

          >Completely unreliable, even for recent dates.

          Reliable, expecial for dates between 500-4000 years.

          >>What about Lucy?

          >Think "chimpanzee." Take a look at her feet (I mean the FOSSIL's feet, NOT
          the statue's).

          You can "think" champanzee all you want, but it won't help. Lucy is not a
          chimpanzee. She has some characteristics of great apes and some
          characteristics of later humans. Look at her pelvis. Look at the position
          of the foramen magnum. And look at her feet and compare them to those of a
          chimpanzee and you will find them to be more like yours.

          >>>Are the human footprints with dinosaur footprints found in Texas for
          real? NOPE

          > ABSOLUTELY There are a number of people who claim to have seen them
          EXCAVATED.

          The so-called mantracks from the Paluxy River have been rather conclusively
          shown to be the tracks of a bipedal dinosaur. They only look like human
          tracks if you ignore the area around each print.

          Some of the Paluxy tracks are actually a hoax, carved by bored WPA workers.

          >>>Does the study of DNA support creation or evolution? EVOLUTION

          >CREATION

          Nope, defintely evolution. The differences between the DNA of different
          species follows very nicely the pattern of decent derived from fossil
          studies. Humans and chimpanzees are 99% DNA compatable. My distantly
          related animals show corresponding distance in DNA.

          >> Has there been fraud on either side of the debate? YES look at Texas
          >>stuff and Piltdown man.

          >YES, some on both sides, but mostly on the evolutionist. (E.g., the
          peppered moths, the fetal
          > transformations, etc.)

          Peppered Moths and fetal transformations are not frauds. Most frauds are
          exposed by evolutionists, by the way. That includes Piltdown.

          >>Was there a worldwide flood as claimed in the Bible? NOPE

          >YES

          There is absolutely no geologic evidence for such a flood, a conclusion
          reached in 1824 by Reverend Adam Sedgwick and Reverend William Buckland,
          both ministers, both geologists and both working from a creationist paradigm
          trying to find the evidence of such a flood. The could not and no one has
          since.

          >>Does Noah's Ark exist? NOPE

          >YES

          Evidence?


          >>Does the concept of evolution fit in with the Bible? NOPE the bible is
          not science.

          >NO

          No comment







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        • hbborteck
          Who wrote them? [ten commandments] Ex. 34:1 and 31:18 say that God wrote on the tablets, but Ex. 34:27 has God dictating the words to Moses. And was it Mount
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 14, 2006
            Who wrote them? [ten commandments] Ex. 34:1 and 31:18 say that God
            wrote on the tablets,
            but Ex. 34:27 has God dictating the words to Moses. And was it Mount
            Sinai or Mount Horeb? And just how many commandments were there? The
            various versions don't match.

            Inquiring minds want to know.
            Lainiebs


            Reply;
            If you really want to know, My ever-so-great grandfather,
            Moishe Borteck, wrote them.
            Actually, the Jews had 7 commandments within their culture
            before Moses wrote them. Moses added 3 more. I am not sure
            which ones he added except that keeping the Sabeth was one
            of them.
            As to which mountain, Mt. Sinai and Mt. Horeb are the same
            mountain.

            As my Grandfather told me, and therefore must be true, Moses
            went up to Mt. Horeb in order the contemplate. He saw a
            bush that was burning. But he noticed that the bush was not
            being consumed! Being of a curious nature, he investigated
            this phenomenon and because of his intense concentration, he
            did not notice how close he came to the burning bush.
            It is said that when he accidentally touched the burning bush,
            that that was the first time that the Lord's name was spoken
            out loud!
            Herb
            Herb
          • lainiebs
            ... Really? That lends support to the idea that versions of the stories from both Israel and Judah were condensed into one tale. Each culture used its own
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 14, 2006
              --- In creation_evolution_debate@yahoogroups.com, "hbborteck"
              <hbborteck@...> wrote:
              >
              > Who wrote them? [ten commandments] Ex. 34:1 and 31:18 say that God
              > wrote on the tablets,
              > but Ex. 34:27 has God dictating the words to Moses. And was it Mount
              > Sinai or Mount Horeb? And just how many commandments were there? The
              > various versions don't match.
              >
              > Inquiring minds want to know.
              > Lainiebs
              >
              >
              > Reply;
              > If you really want to know, My ever-so-great grandfather,
              > Moishe Borteck, wrote them.
              > Actually, the Jews had 7 commandments within their culture
              > before Moses wrote them. Moses added 3 more. I am not sure
              > which ones he added except that keeping the Sabeth was one
              > of them.
              > As to which mountain, Mt. Sinai and Mt. Horeb are the same
              > mountain.
              >

              Really?

              That lends support to the idea that versions of the stories from both
              Israel and Judah were condensed into one tale. Each culture used its
              own name for the mountain and the redacted version included both names.



              > As my Grandfather told me, and therefore must be true, Moses
              > went up to Mt. Horeb in order the contemplate. He saw a
              > bush that was burning. But he noticed that the bush was not
              > being consumed! Being of a curious nature, he investigated
              > this phenomenon and because of his intense concentration, he
              > did not notice how close he came to the burning bush.
              > It is said that when he accidentally touched the burning bush,
              > that that was the first time that the Lord's name was spoken
              > out loud!


              :-D
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