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Re: [creation_evolution_debate] Evolution And Bible Don't Mix.

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  • David Bowman
    ... Actually jeebs is the dupe of other fundy bibliolators who have gone before him. ... Nonsense. ... Jeebs confuses matters of religious faith with matters
    Message 1 of 432 , Apr 1, 2010
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      Regarding jeebs' response to Dinohunter:

      >> DINOHUNTER: I undermine the teachings of the church? ROFL
      >> Thats a good one Laurie. Evolution being a fact has nothing to
      >> do with the teachings of Christ and Salvation through Him. For
      >> you to think so shows me that you really have missed whats
      >> important in knowing Christ and having Him in your life.
      >>
      >
      > jeebsthebutler: I believe you have been duped by the
      > evolutionist propaganda Dino.

      Actually jeebs is the dupe of other fundy bibliolators who have
      gone before him.

      >The theory of evolution can not be tested or observed.

      Nonsense.

      > Also the creation account can not be tested or observed. Faith
      > is essential to believe either. Also they can not be combined.

      Jeebs confuses matters of religious faith with matters of science.

      > The reason I am against the teaching of "evolution" as a fact
      > is, first off, it is *not* a fact plain and simple,

      All the evidence points to it actually being a fact.

      > I've done much research from both sides,

      Nonsense. *You*? Research? Please. What "research" have you actually really done, jeebs?

      > and the supporting evidence is non-existent from what I've
      > seen, the "answers" the evolutionary writers give are
      > unsatisfying to say the least,

      How could *you* actually be able to evaluate the evidence?

      > at best it is a hypothesis which has failed miserably.

      Failed? What failure? Be specific.

      > On top of that it could never be known exactly how it all
      > happened from a naturalists perspective,

      So what? Science doesn't know everything. The whole point of
      scientific investigation is to find out the matter.

      > thus they must place their faith in the assumption that the
      > hypothetical process of "evolution" is true and base all their
      > tests off of that assumption.

      There's that 'faith' word again. Faith is a *religious* concept, not a scientific one. In scientific matters scientists accept or reject propositions based on the preponderance of the evidence and the parsimony of the explanation rather than invoking faith.

      > The story of evolution tells us we're a byproduct of time,
      > chance,and natural processes

      Science, by its very nature, only concerns itself with natural processes and invokes only natural explanations for them.

      > that you can't see(a belief in God or gods causing or guiding
      > these things is optional).

      Thus scientific scenarios are compatible with a wide variety of religious viewpoints.

      > The Bible tells us that God purposely created the heaven,earth,
      > and everything in them in 6 days and He rested on the 7th day

      Of couse jeebs presumes to know what God would have us understand by it by presuming the silliest most naive interpretation that diminishes God and His character the most.

      > (a belief in God is essential) Haven't you read this Dino?

      There goes jeebs again supposing that his debate oponents haven't read the Bible.

      > Exudos 20: 7-10
      > 7 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 8 Six days shalt
      > thou labour, and do all thy work; 9 but the seventh day is a
      > sabbath unto the LORD thy God, in it thou shalt not do any
      > manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy
      > man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy
      > stranger that is within thy gates; 10 for in six days the
      > LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
      > and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the
      > sabbath day, and hallowed it.

      "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath." (Jesus Christ)

      > jeebsthebutler: The Bible tells us that God created Man in His
      > own image on the 6th day and that Mankind was the last
      > creation.

      Again jeebs presumes to know, a priori, what God would have us understand about the passage.

      > 24 And God said: 'Let the earth bring forth the living creature
      > after its kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the
      > earth after its kind.' And it was so. 25 And God made the
      > beast of the earth after its kind, and the cattle after their
      > kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the ground after its
      > kind; and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said: 'Let us
      > make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have
      > dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the
      > air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over
      > every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.' 27 And
      > God created man in His own image, in the image of God created
      > He him; male and female created He them. 28 And God blessed
      > them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and
      > replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the
      > fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
      > living thing that creepeth upon the earth.' 29 And God said:
      > 'Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is
      > upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the
      > fruit of a tree yielding seed--to you it shall be for food; 30
      > and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air,
      > and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there
      > is a living soul, [I have given] every green herb for food.'
      > And it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that He had made,
      > and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there
      > was morning, the sixth day.

      That's nice. But is has no bearing whatsoever on matters of what science may or may not conclude based on the actual evidence, rather than based on a prior naive hermeneutic of words in a book.

      > jeebsthebutler: Do you think Christ believed in evolution Dino?

      Did Christ believe in heliocentric solar system?, atoms?, germs?, general relativity?, quantum mechanics? Who knows? Who cares? What relevance would his human understanding about matters of the natural world have on anything? Jesus was not a scientist. God did not incarnate Himself among human beings to correct their understandings of scientific matters. He did so to point us to Himself and to save us from our sins.

      > Matthew 19:3-6
      > 3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying
      > unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every
      > cause?
      > 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he
      > which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
      > 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother,
      > and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one
      > flesh?
      > 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What
      > therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

      That's nice. It is also quite ironic, in light of Christ's explicit teaching here about divorce, that the divorce rate among fundies is higher than among the general population, and significantly higher than among atheists. Perhaps it would behoove fundies to better heed Christ's words here.

      > jeebsthebutler: The "theory" of evolution undermines the Bible
      > with naturalistic "explanations" which obviously can not
      > explain God's awesome power,

      Actually, that is precisely what science does. It explains God's awesome power.

      > and causes those who are not sure what to believe to become
      > confused and lose faith in the Everlasting Word of God.

      Again, jeeb's is confused as to just what the "Everlasting Word of God" is. It is the 2nd person of the Godhead, i.e. Christ, not the Bible. See the first chapter of John's gospel.

      > Here's a hypothetical question for you Dino..if it came down
      > to it which would you choose, Science or the Word of God?

      Or? Science ought be neither here nor there in matters of religious faith. Anything else is sacrilege

      Dave Bowman
    • Dave Oldridge
      ... Creationism teaches well-meaning people to be LIARS. Phooey on creationism! -- Dave Oldridge Skype: daveoldridge Ham Radio: VA7CZ
      Message 432 of 432 , Nov 8, 2011
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        On 02/04/2010 2:03 PM, gabor horvath wrote:
        >
        >
        > BAKKE
        > > Um... Gabor, why do you keep making such a fool out of yourself?
        >
        > MATT: Because his faith is weak and he is science-phobic; he is trying
        > to hold on to what he has left and knows he is losing which is why he
        > posts more and more as an attempt to reinforce it.
        > Gabor:
        > Phoooey evolutionism and the result of it in the deterioration of
        > human character. I wish at leat a little improvement to you in the
        > future. Give it a try! Who knows .... Cheers!

        Creationism teaches well-meaning people to be LIARS. Phooey on creationism!

        --
        Dave Oldridge
        Skype: daveoldridge
        Ham Radio: VA7CZ
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