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Re: [crawl-dev] Re: Crawl 5

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  • Brent Ross
    // From: Linley Robert Henzell // Just a couple of comments: // // - IIRC the Angband variant explosion had more to
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 1, 2002
      // From: "Linley Robert Henzell" <linley.henzell@...>
      // Just a couple of comments:
      //
      // - IIRC the Angband variant explosion had more to do with Ben
      // Harrison's cleaning up of the source code than with the
      // external data file thing. All of the variants I can think of
      // involve a lot of source-level changes (there may be one or two
      // which are just info file based, but none of the big ones).
      // I'm not saying that enabling non-compile-requiring modifications
      // wouldn't help people make variants, but it certainly isn't a
      // necessary condition.

      A lot of them start as changes to the data files and only minor
      adjustments to the code. A fair number of variants never really
      get any further.

      Overall, its the nice clean Angband Engine that people like. In
      fact why don't we do Crawlband instead of Crawl 5.0.

      Here are some issues:

      -- monsters: I have a quick little program for pulling out data
      from the monster list, which could easily spit out a monster
      data file (I've already done this for AEMoria, something I
      really should finish up).

      -- skill system: would have to be brought over, but the bulk
      is already fairly moduralized. Most of the work would be
      in tying in the exercise calls to the correct parts of the
      Angband engine.

      -- dungeons/subdungeons: various types already been done in a
      few variants, most of the work would be in bringing over the
      dungeon generation code so we can have Crawl-like caves.
      As a bonus, we'd be getting larger levels and a lot of extra
      vault types (ooh, Crawl with Greater Checkerboard Vaults!).

      -- items: Crawl has relatively few so they can be quickly done
      by hand... some little snippets of code will need to be added.

      -- persistant dungeon: would have to make changes to the save
      formats to accomidate that.

      -- unneeded stats and resistances could be quickly ripped out,
      the character description pages would need some rework.

      -- race/class: Angband has some structures for these things, which
      is a definite start to making them data-driven.

      -- combat system: Oangband combat is quite nice, especially
      if we reverse the time system like Cthangband, so that we
      can have something close to our current combat time system.

      -- magic: The memorization system is already there, and with a
      few tweaks it could be practically identical. Is having
      to lug around books so bad? If it is we can always create
      an artificial list for the old behaviour.

      -- gods: Pretty much adding the religion module from scratch.
      Wouldn't want to get involved with a lot of the variant
      systems at all.

      -- macros: Crawl macros have problems, Angband has fixed the
      bugs I had problems with and has a very powerful system.
      Overall, quite a win.

      -- options: Angband has nice option screens that allow
      options to be modified while the game is running...
      it'd be nice if Crawl had this for the 4.0 release,
      but we could hold off on it for Crawlband. Another
      big win.

      -- Angband has more portibility and would quickly get us
      X Windows and tileset support.

      -- inventory: Unfortunately, we'd probably be stuck in the
      short term with the annoying Angband/Moria one where
      items are regularly shifted around. A big loss until
      its rewritten... although having equipment on a separate
      list is a bit of a win.

      Overall, it shouldn't be much more than a months work to get
      Crawlband up and in running order.

      Brent

      PS Happy April Fools Day!
    • Daniel Ligon
      ... You really had me goin . Nice work. :) -- Daniel Ligon maglorn@comcast.net Bringing in the Lords of Chaos
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 1, 2002
        On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 05:37:23AM -0500, Brent Ross wrote:
        >
        > Crawlband

        > PS Happy April Fools Day!

        You really had me goin'. Nice work. :)

        --
        Daniel Ligon maglorn@...

        Bringing in the Lords of Chaos Sucking out the souls of heroes
        Bringing up the Beasts of Hades Laying waste to knights and ladies
      • Jesse Jones
        ... You had me going to. :-) I ve been working on getting Crawl5 up and running. What I m doing is getting a very basic game up and running with a very crude
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 2, 2002
          At 5:37 AM -0500 4/1/02, Brent Ross wrote:
          >// From: "Linley Robert Henzell" <linley.henzell@...>
          >// Just a couple of comments:
          >//
          >// - IIRC the Angband variant explosion had more to do with Ben
          >// Harrison's cleaning up of the source code than with the
          >// external data file thing. All of the variants I can think of
          >// involve a lot of source-level changes (there may be one or two
          >// which are just info file based, but none of the big ones).
          >// I'm not saying that enabling non-compile-requiring modifications
          >// wouldn't help people make variants, but it certainly isn't a
          >// necessary condition.
          >
          >A lot of them start as changes to the data files and only minor
          >adjustments to the code. A fair number of variants never really
          >get any further.
          >
          >Overall, its the nice clean Angband Engine that people like. In
          >fact why don't we do Crawlband instead of Crawl 5.0.
          >
          >[snip]
          >
          >PS Happy April Fools Day!

          You had me going to. :-) I've been working on getting Crawl5 up and
          running. What I'm doing is getting a very basic game up and running
          with a very crude level design, one very stupid monster, and no
          combat. In other words the skeleton of something we can build on.

          I have most of it done now. After I finish I was planning on
          uploading it to an FTP site so that you guys can make comments and
          then hopefully switch to SourceForge or something.

          -- Jesse
          --
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