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  • Daniel MacLeod
    Just got out of my Renaissance and Reformation college class. This week we discussed the theology of John Calvin and the early Puritan settlers of New
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 25, 2004
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      Just got out of my 'Renaissance and Reformation' college class. This
      week we discussed the theology of John Calvin and the early Puritan
      settlers of New England. I was quite disappointed to see that the
      professor knew little or nothing of Reformed theology and couldn't
      answer some of the simplest questions in this regard. I am sure this
      will be the only introduction to Calvinism for many of the students
      and unfortunately I think this presentation of the theology left them
      believing the Puritans were both ignorant and superstitous. I felt
      compelled to 'lead' the class but I was certain my professor would
      not approve of me knowing more than him on the subject. I think
      keeping one's mouth shut is the most difficult aspect of a college
      education. I left feeling somewhat depressed. I seriously doubt sound
      theology will take with the younger generation after exposure to
      Protestant doctrine via the college experience. College truly is
      a 'brainwashing' experience not intended to convey the truth -- only
      the study of humanism.

      Dan MacLeod
    • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
      Dan, I have already gone through this thing called college/university. I have found that if you ask the question and correct the professor with much respect,
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 25, 2004
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        Dan,

        I have already gone through this thing called college/university.
        I have found that if you ask the question and correct the professor
        with much respect, gentleness, and humility they usually do not get
        upset. And if you state that you hold to the ideology and believe in
        it firmly, most will allow you to "instruct" the rest of the class.
        I did this numerous times, even with professors that were hostile to
        Christianity and they always allowed me to "correct" them which lead
        to productive in class discussion. And I'm talking about liberal
        colleges like in Southern California and wher I ended up graduating
        from : San Francisco State University! It will eat you up if you
        don't speak out. If you are nervous at first, ask the teacher if you
        can talk to him after class and then "correct" him/her, it will go a
        long way and you will be surprised just how much you can really do in
        a conversation like that. The great majority of professor enjoy and
        even encourage such questions & discussions with students. Most will
        not be offended that a student knows more than the professor, they
        too recognize (ok, some don't) that they are finite in knowledge,
        even in their own field.

        So brother, I encourage you, speak up and testify!

        In Christ,

        Edgar


        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel MacLeod"
        <macleodforever@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Just got out of my 'Renaissance and Reformation' college class.
        This
        > week we discussed the theology of John Calvin and the early Puritan
        > settlers of New England. I was quite disappointed to see that the
        > professor knew little or nothing of Reformed theology and couldn't
        > answer some of the simplest questions in this regard. I am sure
        this
        > will be the only introduction to Calvinism for many of the students
        > and unfortunately I think this presentation of the theology left
        them
        > believing the Puritans were both ignorant and superstitous. I felt
        > compelled to 'lead' the class but I was certain my professor would
        > not approve of me knowing more than him on the subject. I think
        > keeping one's mouth shut is the most difficult aspect of a college
        > education. I left feeling somewhat depressed. I seriously doubt
        sound
        > theology will take with the younger generation after exposure to
        > Protestant doctrine via the college experience. College truly is
        > a 'brainwashing' experience not intended to convey the truth --
        only
        > the study of humanism.
        >
        > Dan MacLeod
      • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
        Dan, I have already gone through this thing called college/university. I have found that if you ask the question and correct the professor with much respect,
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 25, 2004
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          Dan,

          I have already gone through this thing called college/university.
          I have found that if you ask the question and correct the professor
          with much respect, gentleness, and humility they usually do not get
          upset. And if you state that you hold to the ideology and believe in
          it firmly, most will allow you to "instruct" the rest of the class.
          I did this numerous times, even with professors that were hostile to
          Christianity and they always allowed me to "correct" them which lead
          to productive in class discussion. And I'm talking about liberal
          colleges like in Southern California and wher I ended up graduating
          from : San Francisco State University! It will eat you up if you
          don't speak out. If you are nervous at first, ask the teacher if you
          can talk to him after class and then "correct" him/her, it will go a
          long way and you will be surprised just how much you can really do in
          a conversation like that. The great majority of professor enjoy and
          even encourage such questions & discussions with students. Most will
          not be offended that a student knows more than the professor, they
          too recognize (ok, some don't) that they are finite in knowledge,
          even in their own field.

          So brother, I encourage you, speak up and testify!

          In Christ,

          Edgar


          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel MacLeod"
          <macleodforever@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Just got out of my 'Renaissance and Reformation' college class.
          This
          > week we discussed the theology of John Calvin and the early Puritan
          > settlers of New England. I was quite disappointed to see that the
          > professor knew little or nothing of Reformed theology and couldn't
          > answer some of the simplest questions in this regard. I am sure
          this
          > will be the only introduction to Calvinism for many of the students
          > and unfortunately I think this presentation of the theology left
          them
          > believing the Puritans were both ignorant and superstitous. I felt
          > compelled to 'lead' the class but I was certain my professor would
          > not approve of me knowing more than him on the subject. I think
          > keeping one's mouth shut is the most difficult aspect of a college
          > education. I left feeling somewhat depressed. I seriously doubt
          sound
          > theology will take with the younger generation after exposure to
          > Protestant doctrine via the college experience. College truly is
          > a 'brainwashing' experience not intended to convey the truth --
          only
          > the study of humanism.
          >
          > Dan MacLeod
        • thebishopsdoom
          ... This ... this ... them ... I would agree that a prof may be willing to clarify something if you can show ample proof that he has misrepresented something
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 25, 2004
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            --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel MacLeod"
            <macleodforever@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Just got out of my 'Renaissance and Reformation' college class.
            This
            > week we discussed the theology of John Calvin and the early Puritan
            > settlers of New England. I was quite disappointed to see that the
            > professor knew little or nothing of Reformed theology and couldn't
            > answer some of the simplest questions in this regard. I am sure
            this
            > will be the only introduction to Calvinism for many of the students
            > and unfortunately I think this presentation of the theology left
            them
            > believing the Puritans were both ignorant and superstitous.

            I would agree that a prof may be willing to clarify something if you
            can show ample proof that he has misrepresented something and that
            you really have enough knowledge of the subject to show that he in
            fact has done so. Depending of the context, it might be done in
            class, or outside of class in private consultation with the prof. But
            be prepared with documentation to show the reason for your claims.
            Anyone can stand up and prattle like a parroting gorilla any nonsense
            they read over the internet or from some podunct book from someone
            with all of the scholarly calibre of a Peter Ruckman. It may be also
            helpful to find out where they are getting their information. If he
            was viewing what Calvin was teaching thru the eyes of reading about
            certain groups in New England, he may not have been entirely
            inaccurate about what was being held within the cpontext of New
            England "reformed" theology, for example, among the separatists or
            among the antinomians, and various things going on there - though it
            would depend on who he was talking about and what was said. On the
            other hand, I was victim in high school to the idea that Calvin was
            the man that came up with a view called predestination, and that
            predestination means that God has books of all of history sitting on
            a shelf in heaven, and when God reads a book off the shelf, that's
            your life passing by. I recall it being something along those lines.
            So it could be just an honest misunderstanding or confounding of
            groups, or it could be just a warped prof.
            -thebishopsdoom
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