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No glory derived from creatures

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  • weeping_calvinist
    Funny how this stuff works out... I ve been looking at the Confession, section by section, and jotting down notes (with alot of help by David Dickson and
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 3, 2003
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      Funny how this stuff works out...

      I've been looking at the Confession, section by section, and jotting
      down notes (with alot of help by David Dickson and Francis Turretin,
      the former specifically commenting on the Confession, that latter
      just happens to deal with the same issues often in the exact same
      order). Anyway, I came to this issue:

      "God hath all life....not standing in need of any creatures which he
      hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his
      own glory in, by, unto, and upon them." (Ch.2 Sec.2)

      Dickson seems to skip over this part altogether, so I looked
      elsewhere in my library and happened across this quote by Rutherfurd
      (Covenant of Life Opened):

      "There can be no giving and taking between the creature and the
      Creator.... Acts 17:25: Neither is the Lord worshipped with mens
      hands, nor with their spirits as if he needed any thing, seeing he
      giveth to all life & breath and all things. What then is the glory
      of the creatures' obedience to him? It is some shining of the
      excellency of God upon men and angles, from the works of God, and our
      obedience to him. But suppose there were no creature to pay the rent
      of this glory to him, is the Lord a loser therefore? Hath he need of
      our songs of glory? Or that creatures should be heralds of his
      praise? Or needs he the workmanship or structure of heaven, sun and
      moon to be a printed book to spell and sound his glory? If he
      needeth not the book (as he needeth nothing created Who sayeth I am
      the Lord All-sufficient) he needs not one letter, nor any sense of
      the contents of the chapters of that book. There is a secret carnal
      notion of God in us, when we act and suffer for God, that brings a
      false peace, and some calms of mind, we have pleased him once, and
      beside that peace, a scum and a froth smokes up insensible in the
      heart, we are profitable to God, it would be the worse with him, if
      he wanted our prayers and service: but had the Lord any missing of
      heaven and of angels and men, in these infinite and innumberable ages
      of duration, that went before any created being?" (pg. 36,37).

      Great quote, and to the point. Now get this... no kidding... I had
      just set my books aside after looking into this topic, and a
      discussion breaks out at work (I didn't start it!).

      "I have a burning question...." says Bob. His question was about the
      book he's reading (Spencer's TULIP). We talked a bit about his
      question, and another guy (Todd) got into the discussion. His
      contribution was that God is a "relational being" and that he desires
      a relationship with man (this was an attempt to get around the
      freewill/sovereignty problem). It just blew me away that right after
      I finished reading Rutherfurd on this, I am almost immediately
      involved in a discussion about it (again, which I did not start).

      I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some good Reformed
      quotes concerning God's essential glory being undiminished and
      underived by Creation.

      Also, if you haven't downloaded the new Adobe Reader 6, go do it. I
      like the new layout and features (you can now search every pdf on
      your system at once, whether or not they have indexes).

      gmw.
    • Dan Fraas
      Yes. We glorify Him in the sense that we acknowledge His glory, and we reflect His glory. This increases the knowledge of His glory. Yet we cannot make God
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 3, 2003
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        Yes. We glorify Him in the sense that we acknowledge His glory, and
        we reflect His glory. This increases the knowledge of His glory.
        Yet we cannot make God more glorious than He is by Himself.

        Riley
        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "weeping_calvinist"
        <raging.calvinist@v...> wrote:
        > Funny how this stuff works out...
        >
        > I've been looking at the Confession, section by section, and
        jotting
        > down notes (with alot of help by David Dickson and Francis
        Turretin,
        > the former specifically commenting on the Confession, that latter
        > just happens to deal with the same issues often in the exact same
        > order). Anyway, I came to this issue:
        >
        > "God hath all life....not standing in need of any creatures which
        he
        > hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting
        his
        > own glory in, by, unto, and upon them." (Ch.2 Sec.2)
        >
        > Dickson seems to skip over this part altogether, so I looked
        > elsewhere in my library and happened across this quote by
        Rutherfurd
        > (Covenant of Life Opened):
        >
        > "There can be no giving and taking between the creature and the
        > Creator.... Acts 17:25: Neither is the Lord worshipped with mens
        > hands, nor with their spirits as if he needed any thing, seeing he
        > giveth to all life & breath and all things. What then is the glory
        > of the creatures' obedience to him? It is some shining of the
        > excellency of God upon men and angles, from the works of God, and
        our
        > obedience to him. But suppose there were no creature to pay the
        rent
        > of this glory to him, is the Lord a loser therefore? Hath he need
        of
        > our songs of glory? Or that creatures should be heralds of his
        > praise? Or needs he the workmanship or structure of heaven, sun
        and
        > moon to be a printed book to spell and sound his glory? If he
        > needeth not the book (as he needeth nothing created Who sayeth I am
        > the Lord All-sufficient) he needs not one letter, nor any sense of
        > the contents of the chapters of that book. There is a secret
        carnal
        > notion of God in us, when we act and suffer for God, that brings a
        > false peace, and some calms of mind, we have pleased him once, and
        > beside that peace, a scum and a froth smokes up insensible in the
        > heart, we are profitable to God, it would be the worse with him, if
        > he wanted our prayers and service: but had the Lord any missing of
        > heaven and of angels and men, in these infinite and innumberable
        ages
        > of duration, that went before any created being?" (pg. 36,37).
        >
        > Great quote, and to the point. Now get this... no kidding... I had
        > just set my books aside after looking into this topic, and a
        > discussion breaks out at work (I didn't start it!).
        >
        > "I have a burning question...." says Bob. His question was about
        the
        > book he's reading (Spencer's TULIP). We talked a bit about his
        > question, and another guy (Todd) got into the discussion. His
        > contribution was that God is a "relational being" and that he
        desires
        > a relationship with man (this was an attempt to get around the
        > freewill/sovereignty problem). It just blew me away that right
        after
        > I finished reading Rutherfurd on this, I am almost immediately
        > involved in a discussion about it (again, which I did not start).
        >
        > I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some good Reformed
        > quotes concerning God's essential glory being undiminished and
        > underived by Creation.
        >
        > Also, if you haven't downloaded the new Adobe Reader 6, go do it.
        I
        > like the new layout and features (you can now search every pdf on
        > your system at once, whether or not they have indexes).
        >
        > gmw.
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