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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] John Owen on "Nature"

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  • Susan <susan_wilkinson@qwest.net>
    (Seems Mr. Precise-ian got his browsers confused.) :) (The Real) Susan (Standing Up) ... it ... having ... manner ... magistrate.[17] ... commit ... much ... 5
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 15, 2003
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      (Seems Mr. Precise-ian got his browsers confused.) :)


      (The Real)
      Susan
      (Standing Up)




      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Susan
      <susan_wilkinson@q...>" <susan_wilkinson@q...> wrote:
      > Gary,
      >
      > No, not exactly. Let us be very precise here, and not conflate two
      > seperate concepts with a sloppy use of words.
      >
      > The Light and Law of Nature very clearly is the law of God that was
      > written in the heart of man at creation.
      >
      > Things like a woman having long hair, are facts of Creation, from
      > which we can also derive some limited knowledge. But the "book" of
      > Creation is not to be confused with the Light of Nature.
      >
      > Tom <------ Precise-ian
      >
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Gearon"
      > <GGearon@p...> wrote:
      > > Very good, Thomas. I understand Owen to be saying that "nature" is
      > not to be interpreted as man would have it, but as God has revealed
      it
      > to man in his creation (woman's physical form being a part of his
      > creation, of course). The Westminster Confession, states further on
      > the Light of Nature (which includes women being covered and men
      having
      > short hair, together, as a matter of the Light of Nature):
      > >
      > > Chapter XX
      > > Of Christian Liberty, and Liberty of Conscience
      > >
      > > And, for their publishing of such opinions, or maintaining of such
      > practices, as are contrary to the light of nature, or to the known
      > principles of Christianity (whether concerning faith, worship, or
      > conversation), or to the power of godliness; or, such erroneous
      > opinions or practices, as either in their own nature, or in the
      manner
      > of publishing or maintaining them, are destructive to the external
      > peace and order which Christ has established in the Church, they may
      > lawfully be called to account,[16] and proceeded against, by the
      > censures of the Church. and by the power of the civil
      magistrate.[17]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > 16] ROM 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which
      commit
      > such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have
      > pleasure in them that do them. 1CO 5:1 It is reported commonly that
      > there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so
      much
      > as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
      5
      > To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
      > that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 11 But
      now
      > I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is
      called
      > a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer,
      > or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 13
      > But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among
      > yourselves that wicked person. 2JO 1:10 If there come any unto you,
      > and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house,
      neither
      > bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker
      of
      > his evil deeds. 2TH 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this
      > epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be
      > ashamed. 1TI 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to
      > wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the
      > doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing
      > nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof
      > cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse
      disputings
      > of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that
      > gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. TIT 1:10 For there
      are
      > many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the
      > circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole
      > houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's
      sake.
      > 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they
      may
      > be sound in the faith. TIT 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the
      > first and second admonition reject. MAT 18:15 Moreover if thy
      brother
      > shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee
      > and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
      16
      > But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more,
      > that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be
      > established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto
      the
      > church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee
      as
      > an heathen man and a publican. 1TI 1:19 Holding faith, and a good
      > conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made
      > shipwreck: 20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have
      > delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. REV 2:2
      I
      > know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst
      > not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say
      they
      > are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars. 14 But I have
      a
      > few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the
      > doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before
      > the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to
      > commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine
      > of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 20 Notwithstanding I have a
      > few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel,
      > which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my
      servants
      > to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 3:9
      > Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they
      are
      > Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and
      > worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
      > >
      > > [17] DEU 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son,
      or
      > thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as
      > thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve
      > other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7
      > Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh
      unto
      > thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto
      > the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor
      > hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt
      thou
      > spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill
      > him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and
      > afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him
      > with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away
      > from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt,
      > from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear,
      and
      > shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. ROM 13:3
      > For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt
      thou
      > then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou
      shalt
      > have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for
      > good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth
      not
      > the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to
      > execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 2JO 1:10 If there come any
      > unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your
      > house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God
      speed
      > is partaker of his evil deeds. EZR 7:23 Whatsoever is commanded by
      the
      > God of heaven, let it be diligently done for the house of the God of
      > heaven: for why should there be wrath against the realm of the king
      > and his sons? 25 And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, that
      is
      > in thine hand, set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the
      > people that are beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy
      > God; and teach ye them that know them not. 26 And whosoever will not
      > do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be
      > executed speedily upon him, whether it be unto death, or to
      > banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment. 27
      > Blessed be the Lord God of our fathers, which hath put such a thing
      as
      > this in the king's heart, to beautify the house of the Lord which is
      > in Jerusalem: 28 And hath extended mercy unto me before the king,
      and
      > his counsellers, and before all the king's mighty princes. And I was
      > strengthened as the hand of the Lord my God was upon me, and I
      > gathered together out of Israel chief men to go up with me. REV
      17:12
      > And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have
      received
      > no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the
      beast.
      > 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall
      > hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat
      > her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their
      hearts
      > to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the
      > beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. NEH 13:15 In those
      > days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and
      > bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and
      figs,
      > and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the
      > sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they
      sold
      > victuals. 17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said
      unto
      > them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath
      day?
      > 21 Then I testified against them, and said unto them, Why lodge ye
      > about the wall? if ye do so again, I will lay hands on you. From
      that
      > time forth came they no more on the sabbath. 22 And I commanded the
      > Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and that they should
      come
      > and keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my
      > God, concerning this also, and spare me according to the greatness
      of
      > thy mercy. 25 And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote
      > certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by
      > God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor
      > take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves. 30 Thus
      > cleansed I them from all strangers, and appointed the wards of the
      > priests and the Levites, every one in his business. 2KI 23:5 And he
      > put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had
      ordained
      > to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in
      the
      > places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto
      Baal,
      > to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host
      > of heaven. 6 And he brought out the grove from the house of the
      Lord,
      > without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook
      > Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof
      > upon the graves of the children of the people. 9 Nevertheless the
      > priests of the high places came not up to the altar of the Lord in
      > Jerusalem, but they did eat of the unleavened bread among their
      > brethren. 20 And he slew all the priests of the high places that
      were
      > there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and
      returned
      > to Jerusalem. 21 And the king commanded all the people, saying, Keep
      > the passover unto the Lord your God, as it is written in the book of
      > this covenant. 2CH 34:33 And Josiah took away all the abominations
      out
      > of all the countries that pertained to the children of Israel, and
      > made all that were present in Israel to serve, even to serve the
      Lord
      > their God. And all his days they departed not from following the
      Lord,
      > the God of their fathers. 2CH 15:12 And they entered into a covenant
      > to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their heart and with
      > all their soul; 13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of
      > Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man
      or
      > woman. 16 And it came to pass, as he talked with him, that the king
      > said unto him, Art thou made of the king's counsel? forbear; why
      > shouldest thou be smitten? Then the prophet forbare, and said, I
      know
      > that God hath determined to destroy thee, because thou hast done
      this,
      > and hast not hearkened unto my counsel. DAN 3:29 Therefore I make a
      > decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any
      thing
      > amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, shall be
      > cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because
      > there is no other God that can deliver after this sort. 1TI 2:2 For
      > kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet
      and
      > peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. ISA 49:23 And kings
      shall
      > be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they
      > shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up
      > the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord: for
      they
      > shall not be ashamed that wait for me. ZEC 13:2 And it shall come to
      > pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the
      > names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be
      > remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean
      spirit
      > to pass out of the land. 3 And it shall come to pass, that when any
      > shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him
      > shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in
      the
      > name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall
      > thrust him through when he prophesieth.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: <bander1643@y...>
      > > To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 1:34 PM
      > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] John Owen on "Nature"
      > >
      > >
      > > > What did the Puritans understand it to mean? Dr. Owen:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Q. 5. What was the rule whereby man was at first to be directed

      > in
      > > > his obedience?
      > > > A.
      > > > The moral or eternal law of God,implanted in his nature and
      > written
      > > > in his heart by creation, being the tenor of the covenant
      > between
      > > > God and him, sacramentally typified by the tree of knowledge

      > of
      > > > good and evil.
      > > >
      > > > Gen. 2:15-17; Rom. 2:14,15; Eph.4:24.
      > > > God never allowed, from the beginning, that the will of
      the
      > > > creature should be the measure of his worship and honour.
      > > >
      > > > Excerpted from:
      > > >
      > > > Two Short Catechisms: Wherein The Principles Of The Doctrine
      Of
      > > > Christ, Are Unfolded And Explained.
      > > >
      > > > Proper for all persons to learn before they be admitted to the
      > > > sacrament of the Lord's supper; and composed for the use of all
      > > > congregations in general.
      > > >
      > > > Chap. 5. - Of the Works of God That Outwardly Are of Him.
      > > >
      > > > http://www.ccel.org/o/owen/catechisms/catechisms.txt
      > > >
      > > > Catechism. Learn it, Live it, Love it.
      > > >
      > > > -Tom
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
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      > > >
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