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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Law of Nature

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  • Fredrick Fleming
    Amen! Are no time would I ever say that salvation is a part of it, but it is a part of our makeup and a very strong statement. David s men were told to go and
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 31, 2002
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      Amen! Are no time would I ever say that salvation is
      a part of it, but it is a part of our makeup and a
      very strong statement. David's men were told to go and
      hide them self, till there beard were regrown.

      --- Thomas Roche <tertullianus_2000@...> wrote:
      > No one is arguing that the wearing of the beard is a
      > salvation issue for men, even those men whose
      > genetic
      > heritage allows them to grown a full, flowing beard.
      >
      > Currently I sport a goatee myself. I have also
      > spent
      > various periods clean-shaven, largely for ulterior
      > motives-- it was simply easier to look for a
      > professional job while clean-shaven, owing to the
      > prejudice against the beard seen in our society.
      > But
      > the central point made by Tertullian remains, that
      > beards, being natural only to one gender of adults
      > (at
      > least in most racial groups) are a natural marker of
      > gender distinction, and as such they should be
      > retained as one marker. The argument is not using
      > the
      > OT beard laws, any more than he argues for the need
      > to
      > wear Hasidic-style hair locks, etc., but rather it
      > is
      > a NT-based argument, based on Paul's teaching about
      > the difference between man and woman, as well as the
      > Mosaic prohibition of transvestitism.
      >
      > --- PuritanPresbyterian
      > <PuritanPresbyterian@...>
      > wrote:
      > > customs, customs, customs. no room for them here
      > as
      > > a requirement for
      > > salvation.
      > >
      > > no one in this society goes beardless because they
      > > are in mourning, so the
      > > use of a beard would be meaningless. In my case,
      > > many would think i'm
      > > Muslim if I had a beard, because I have
      > brown/olive
      > > skin. In the past, as I
      > > was growing one out, many thiought I was a Muslim.
      >
      > > I rather have a
      > > goat-tee, or something like that. Beards are a
      > > bother to me.
      > >
      > > Edgar
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Fredrick Fleming
      > <followerofhim2001@...>
      > > To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 5:36 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Law of
      > Nature
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > --- "Susan <susan_wilkinson@...>"
      > > > <susan_wilkinson@...> wrote:
      > > > > Hi Fredrick,
      > > > The issue of a beard.
      > > > First I would say that a man it to have a beard
      > if
      > > he
      > > > is able to grow won. Let us look at the reason
      > for
      > > > this.
      > > >
      > > > Easton's Bible Dictionary said:
      > > > The mode of wearing it was definitely prescribed
      > > to
      > > > the Jews(Lev. 19:27; 21:5). Hence the import of
      > > > Ezekiel's (5:1-4)description of the "razor"
      > i.e.,
      > > the
      > > > agents of an angryprovidence being used against
      > > the
      > > > guilty nation of the Jews. Itwas a part of a
      > Jew's
      > > > daily toilet to anoint his beard with oil and
      > > perfume
      > > > (Ps. 133:2). Beards were trimmed with the most
      > > > fastidious care (2 Sam. 19:24), and their neglet
      > > was
      > > > an
      > > > indication of deep sorrow (Isa. 15:2; Jer.
      > 41:5).
      > > The
      > > > custom was to shave or pluck off the hair as a
      > > sign of
      > > > mourning (Isa. 50:6; Jer. 48:37; Ezra 9:3). The
      > > beards
      > > > of David's ambassadors were cut off by hanun (2
      > > Sam.
      > > > 10:4) as a mark of indignity.
      > > > On the other hand, the Egyptians carefully
      > > shaved
      > > > the hair off their faces, and they compelled
      > their
      > > > slaves to do so also (Gen.41:14).
      > > >
      > > > We see that the beard of a man show that he was
      > > > walking according to the Lord. A man beard was
      > > like a
      > > > woman's hair, a shame to him if it was shorn. As
      > > > Christian men we should have a beard to let
      > other
      > > know
      > > > that we are not in morning, Our Lord lives and
      > we
      > > show
      > > > that we live in Him.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > I'm curious as to why you think men should
      > wear
      > > > > beards? Is this
      > > > > something you think men ~should~ do, or
      > > something
      > > > > that would be your
      > > > > personal preference?
      > > > >
      > > > > Susan
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In
      > > covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com,
      > > > > Fredrick Fleming
      > > > > <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
      > > > > > YES!!!!! Oh if only the christian church
      > would
      > > do
      > > > > > this! It would be good if men also wore
      > Beard.
      > > > > > --- Gary Gearon <GGearon@p...> wrote:
      > > > > > > Do you think the practice of the Free
      > Church
      > > of
      > > > > > > Scotland in the UK and USA, and its custom
      > > of
      > > > > women
      > > > > > > manditorily wearing headcoverings (during
      > > > > worship
      > > > > > > only, granted), should count as a
      > legitimate
      > > > > North
      > > > > > > American customary observance?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > > > From: Soles
      > > > > > > To:
      > > covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 1:28 PM
      > > > > > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Law of
      > > > > Nature
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > > > From: Gary Gearon
      > > > > > > To:
      > > covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 11:44
      > > AM
      > > > > > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Law of
      > > > > Nature
      > > > > > > Dear Grant and Cathie,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Here are some words of Gillespie that we
      > > > > covered
      > > > > > > in a Friday night Bible study at the
      > > Covenanted
      > > > > > > Reformed Presbyterian Church where we
      > > attend:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I hope you find this edifying. English
      > > Popish
      > > > > > > Ceremonies, pg. 13, by Covenanted Pastor,
      > > George
      > > > > > > Gillespie.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > If it is demanded to what purpose serves
      > > then
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > enacting of ecclesiastical laws, since
      > they
      > > have
      > > > > not
      > > > > > > in them any power to bind the conscience,
      > I
      > > > > answer,
      > > > > > > The use and end for which ecclesiastical
      > > laws do
      > > > > > > serve is:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > 1. For the plain discovery of such
      > things
      > > as
      > > > > the
      >
      === message truncated ===


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    • Thomas Roche
      Don t be foolish or deliberately disingenuous-- you know the point I am making and the general principles on which I make it. Your points no more disqualify
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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        Don't be foolish or deliberately disingenuous-- you
        know the point I am making and the general principles
        on which I make it. Your points no more disqualify
        this point than does the counter argument noting that
        some, mostly middle aged or older, men, develop
        enlarged breasts, does to the reality that breast size
        is a similar gender marker.

        --- Cheryl <cheryl@...> wrote:
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Thomas Roche
        > But
        > the central point made by Tertullian remains, that
        > beards, being natural only to one gender of adults
        > (at
        > least in most racial groups) are a natural marker
        > of
        > gender distinction, and as such they should be
        > retained as one marker.
        >
        > Hah! For some reason women's faces can run amuck
        > as they get older and start sprouting whiskers that
        > make adolescent boys envious. So much for that
        > gender distinction.
        >
        > Cheryl -- thankful for electrolysis, waxing and
        tweezers


        =====
        Dr. Thomas P. Roche
        Librarian
        The Marvelwood School
        476 Skiff Mtn. Rd.-- PO Box 3001
        Kent, CT 06757
        tertullianus_2000@...
        (my opinions do not reflect those of my employer)

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