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RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Luther on Antinomians

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  • Bill Ross
    ... Whence this concern for the 10 commandments? If someone is under the torah s jurisdiction then they are bound to keep all of the
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 1, 2002
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      <Jerry/Luther>
      >>"For how can a man preach rightly about the works of the Holy Ghost in the First Table and speak about comfort, grace, forgiveness of sins, if he neither heeds nor practices the works of the Holy Ghost in the Second Table, which he can understand and experience, while he has never attempted or experienced those of the First Table?"

      <Bill>
      Whence this concern for the 10 commandments? If someone is under the torah's jurisdiction then they are bound to keep all of the commands. You can't just pick 10 arbitrarily:

      Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

      James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

      This is why Paul was so upset with those who desired to be under the jurisdiction of the torah:

      Gal 4:

      21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

      22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

      23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

      24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. {covenants: or, testaments} {Sinai: Gr. Sina}

      25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. {answereth to: or, is in the same rank with}

      26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

      27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

      28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

      29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

      30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

      31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

      1 ¶ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

      2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

      3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

      4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

      5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

      6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

      7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? {hinder you: or, drive you back}

      8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

      9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

      Bill Ross
    • Bill Ross
      ... Agreed. But what is the moral law? Where is it defined in scripture? ... coming. We do not keep the ceremonial law because it has
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 1, 2002
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        <Susan>
        >>The MORAL law is perpetual.

        <Bill>
        Agreed. But what is the moral law? Where is it defined in scripture?

        <Susan>
        >>The CEREMONIAL law was abrogated (by being fulfilled) with Christ's
        coming. We do not keep the ceremonial law because it has served its
        purpose.

        <Bill>
        How does that square with this?:

        Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one
        jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be
        fulfilled.

        You see, the torah is a covenant. God does not alter a covenant that was
        sealed in blood!

        Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is
        gone out of my lips.

        Galatians 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be
        but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or
        addeth thereto. {covenant: or, testament}

        <Susan>
        >>We do not keep the moral law to gain salvation (for those who try that
        are indeed bound to keep all the law perfectly and perpetually), but we
        keep the moral law precisely because it defines how we are to love God
        and our neighbor.

        <Bill>
        So where in scripture is the moral law defined?

        <Susan>
        >>You have some serious errors in your doctrine (some that I recognize
        that I have been taught in the past), I urge you to consider carefully
        what the men here have been telling you. Read, read, read, and please
        don't dismiss what you read out of hand. The Lord did not have you
        wander into this club for no reason.

        <Bill>
        Please point me to the scriptures that assert:

        * the 10 commandments constitute the moral law
        * the believer is under the jurisdiction of the 10 commandments
        * the ceremonial law has been abrogated

        Then I will be content.

        As it is, I read that God does not alter his covenants. Rather, Christ
        died that we might be dead to the law, to be married to another.

        Shalom,

        Bill Ross
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