Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalm singing

Expand Messages
  • Fredrick Fleming
    Where is this LINKS as? is there a place on the web that I can go to? ... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Where is this LINKS as? is there a place on the web
      that I can go to?
      --- Thomas Britton <bander1643@...> wrote:
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., Fredrick
      > Fleming
      > <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
      > > I wonder if there is a place to hear the psalms.
      >
      > I created a Folder in the links section named PSALM
      > PSINGING, I put in
      > a link to a Tasmanian Presbyterian Church that has
      > some great Psalms
      > recorded. Feel free to keep adding to the list.
      >
      > TOm
      >
      >


      __________________________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
      http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
    • Thomas Britton
      Hi! The links are in the frame on the left in the group. If you re posting by e-mail, So Solly Challey, you have to go to the group to see them. Tom
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi!

        The links are in the frame on the left in the group. If you're posting
        by e-mail, So Solly Challey, you have to go to the group to see them.

        Tom

        --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., Fredrick Fleming
        <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
        > Where is this LINKS as? is there a place on the web
        > that I can go to?
        > --- Thomas Britton <bander1643@y...> wrote:
        > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., Fredrick
        > > Fleming
        > > <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
        > > > I wonder if there is a place to hear the psalms.
        > >
        > > I created a Folder in the links section named PSALM
        > > PSINGING, I put in
        > > a link to a Tasmanian Presbyterian Church that has
        > > some great Psalms
        > > recorded. Feel free to keep adding to the list.
        > >
        > > TOm
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
        > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
      • Jerry
        Here s a link that should get you there: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/covenantedreformationclub/links/Psalm_Si nging_001036164282/ If that doesn t work, try:
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 2, 2002
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Here's a link that should get you there:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/covenantedreformationclub/links/Psalm_Si
          nging_001036164282/

          If that doesn't work, try:

          http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1B025252

          gmw.
        • Gary Gearon
          How bout Jam Master Jer, Jr. G and E ... From: Jerry To: Sent: Saturday,
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 2, 2002
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            How bout'

            "Jam Master Jer, Jr."

            G and E
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Jerry" <ragingcalvinist@...>
            To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 9:58 AM
            Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalm singing


            >
            > Here's a link that should get you there:
            >
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/covenantedreformationclub/links/Psalm_Si
            > nging_001036164282/
            >
            > If that doesn't work, try:
            >
            > http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1B025252
            >
            > gmw.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------
            > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Pike Online, Inc.]
            >
            >

            ------------------------------------------------------
            [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Pike Online, Inc.]
          • solemnleague@aol.com
            Martin, I cant remember. I know I was told the place a few years ago that the Synod allowed it. I will look to find where. Paul Moore
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 3, 2002
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              Martin,
                   I cant remember. I know I was told the place a few years ago that the Synod allowed it. I will look to find where.
              Paul Moore
            • Martin
              Hi Paul, Which article authorizes the use of an organ? Thanks, Martin ... From: solemnleague@aol.com To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com Sent:
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 3, 2002
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Paul,
                 
                Which article authorizes the use of an organ?
                 
                Thanks,
                 
                Martin
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 5:07 PM
                Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalm singing

                In a message dated 10/31/02 2:58:19 PM Central Standard Time, followerofhim2001@... writes:

                What gets me is that the reform church in this
                country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930.


                The Synod of Dort(1618-1619) had NT and Epistle hymns(both inspired) and it allowd for use of an organ.
                Paul


                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                ---
                 
                Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/02
              • solemnleague@aol.com
                Martin(list), I must confess that I have been looking in my faves files under Reformed stuff and I can not find this. I must offer and apology for posting
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 3, 2002
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Martin(list),
                       I must confess that I have been looking in my "faves" files under Reformed stuff and I can not find this. I must offer and apology for posting this. I know I was told this by a Dutch Reformed minister and thought I had the quote or info.
                  This minister told me that the 1618-1619 Synod of Dort allowed the use of Organs for Psalms.
                  Until I find otherwise...disregard my previous assertion.
                  Again....please accept my apology for posting when I didnt know what I was talking about.
                  Thanks,
                  Paul
                • Colin
                  ... This is also the claim of the Protestant Reformed Churches of America (PRCA). They have contended that article 69 of the Synod of Dordt 1618 permits the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 4, 2002
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., solemnleague@a... wrote:
                    > Martin(list),
                    > I must confess that I have been looking in my "faves" files
                    > under Reformed stuff and I can not find this. I must offer and
                    > apology for posting this. I know I was told this by a Dutch
                    > Reformed minister and thought I had the quote or info.
                    > This minister told me that the 1618-1619 Synod of Dort allowed the
                    > use of Organs for Psalms.

                    This is also the claim of the Protestant Reformed Churches of America
                    (PRCA). They have contended that article 69 of the Synod of Dordt 1618
                    permits the use of organs.

                    "In their public worship on the Sabbath, these churches sing only the
                    Psalms (with organ accompaniment) in keeping with article 69 of the
                    Church Order adopted for the Reformed Churches by the Synod of Dordt
                    (1618-1619)" --Beliefs and Practices of Faith Protestant Reformed
                    Church.

                    This is what article 69 actually says:

                    "In the churches, only the 150 Psalms of David, the Ten Commandments,
                    the Lord's Prayer, the Twelve Articles of Faith, the Song of Mary,
                    that of Zacharias, and that of Simeon shall be sung. It is left to
                    the individual churches whether or not to use the hymn "Oh God! who
                    art our Father ." All other hymns are to be excluded from the
                    churches, and in those places where some have already been
                    introduced, they are to be removed by the most suitable means."

                    It says nothing about musical instruments.

                    Note also that the Synod did not endorse exclusive psalmody per se,
                    but rather exclusive inspired praise. The Synod however earlier in
                    the 16th century clearly ruled out the use of organs. Though some
                    would say that it was an over reaction to "popery" then prevalant in
                    those times.

                    The PRCA also believe that the Belgic Confession gives them the
                    liberty to use instruments in worship since it is seen as a
                    circumstance of worship:

                    "It is not the regulative principle that there must be an express
                    biblical command for everything that goes on in a worship service,
                    for example, what the minister wears; whether we stand or sit to pray
                    and sing; how the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper are
                    distributed; whether the singing is accompanied by an organ, begun
                    with a pitch-pipe, or led by a precentor, and the like.

                    "Some zealots like to present the regulative principle as requiring
                    biblical warrant for every detail of a worship service, but this is
                    to mistake the principle. The southern Presbyterian worthy John
                    Girardeau was guilty of this error. His is the dubious honor of
                    having authored what may be the most violent assault upon
                    instrumental accompaniment of congregational singing ever launched.
                    He called the accompaniment of congregational singing by an organ or
                    piano "heresy in the sphere of worship." But Girardeau brought
                    instrumental accompaniment under the condemnation of the regulative
                    principle by misstating the principle. He described the regulative
                    principle this way: "Whatsoever in connection with the public worship
                    of the church, is not commanded by Christ … in His Word, is
                    forbidden" (Instrumental Music in Public Worship, 1888, repr. New
                    Covenant Publication Society, 1983, p. 200; emphasis added)

                    "In fact, the church has liberty "in connection with public worship"
                    to arrange a great many details of her worship: what time she meets;
                    how often the Supper is administered, and how; the order of worship;
                    sitting or standing for prayers and songs; form prayers in
                    administering the sacraments and in exercising discipline;
                    instrumental accompaniment of the singing, and more.

                    "There are "circumstances" attending worship, as well as the elements
                    themselves, and one reduces the regulative principle to an unworkable
                    principle, if not to absurdity, if he attempts to apply it to every
                    detail of worship. The New Testament church has liberty in Christ to
                    arrange the details of her worship, and this liberty is important.
                    The Belgic Confession claims this liberty for the Reformed church. In
                    the context of "the worship of God," the Confession states that "it
                    is useful and beneficial that those who are rulers of the church
                    institute and establish certain ordinances among themselves for
                    maintaining the body of the church" (Art. 32)."

                    -"Shall We Please God or (Certain Kinds of) People? or,
                    The Regulative Principle of Worship (3)" by David Engelsma, Standard
                    Bearer; May 15, 2000

                    Colin Tayler
                  • Susan
                    Thanks for this post, Colin. I believe it is going to help me in another discussion I m having outside of clubs. Did you find the Synod of Dordt quote (art.
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 5, 2002
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks for this post, Colin. I believe it is going to help me in
                      another discussion I'm having outside of clubs.

                      Did you find the Synod of Dordt quote (art. 69) online? If so, where?

                      Susan

                      --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Colin " <cbx292000@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., solemnleague@a... wrote:
                      > > Martin(list),
                      > > I must confess that I have been looking in my "faves" files

                      > > under Reformed stuff and I can not find this. I must offer and

                      > > apology for posting this. I know I was told this by a Dutch

                      > > Reformed minister and thought I had the quote or info.
                      > > This minister told me that the 1618-1619 Synod of Dort allowed the
                      > > use of Organs for Psalms.
                      >
                      > This is also the claim of the Protestant Reformed Churches of
                      America
                      > (PRCA). They have contended that article 69 of the Synod of Dordt
                      1618
                      > permits the use of organs.
                      >
                      > "In their public worship on the Sabbath, these churches sing only
                      the
                      > Psalms (with organ accompaniment) in keeping with article 69 of the
                      > Church Order adopted for the Reformed Churches by the Synod of Dordt
                      > (1618-1619)" --Beliefs and Practices of Faith Protestant Reformed
                      > Church.
                      >
                      > This is what article 69 actually says:
                      >
                      > "In the churches, only the 150 Psalms of David, the Ten
                      Commandments,
                      > the Lord's Prayer, the Twelve Articles of Faith, the Song of Mary,
                      > that of Zacharias, and that of Simeon shall be sung. It is left to
                      > the individual churches whether or not to use the hymn "Oh God! who
                      > art our Father ." All other hymns are to be excluded from the
                      > churches, and in those places where some have already been
                      > introduced, they are to be removed by the most suitable means."
                      >
                      > It says nothing about musical instruments.
                      >
                      > Note also that the Synod did not endorse exclusive psalmody per se,
                      > but rather exclusive inspired praise. The Synod however earlier in
                      > the 16th century clearly ruled out the use of organs. Though some
                      > would say that it was an over reaction to "popery" then prevalant in
                      > those times.
                      >
                      > The PRCA also believe that the Belgic Confession gives them the
                      > liberty to use instruments in worship since it is seen as a
                      > circumstance of worship:
                      >
                      > "It is not the regulative principle that there must be an express
                      > biblical command for everything that goes on in a worship service,
                      > for example, what the minister wears; whether we stand or sit to
                      pray
                      > and sing; how the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper are
                      > distributed; whether the singing is accompanied by an organ, begun
                      > with a pitch-pipe, or led by a precentor, and the like.
                      >
                      > "Some zealots like to present the regulative principle as requiring
                      > biblical warrant for every detail of a worship service, but this is
                      > to mistake the principle. The southern Presbyterian worthy John
                      > Girardeau was guilty of this error. His is the dubious honor of
                      > having authored what may be the most violent assault upon
                      > instrumental accompaniment of congregational singing ever launched.
                      > He called the accompaniment of congregational singing by an organ or
                      > piano "heresy in the sphere of worship." But Girardeau brought
                      > instrumental accompaniment under the condemnation of the regulative
                      > principle by misstating the principle. He described the regulative
                      > principle this way: "Whatsoever in connection with the public
                      worship
                      > of the church, is not commanded by Christ … in His Word, is
                      > forbidden" (Instrumental Music in Public Worship, 1888, repr. New
                      > Covenant Publication Society, 1983, p. 200; emphasis added)
                      >
                      > "In fact, the church has liberty "in connection with public worship"
                      > to arrange a great many details of her worship: what time she meets;
                      > how often the Supper is administered, and how; the order of worship;
                      > sitting or standing for prayers and songs; form prayers in
                      > administering the sacraments and in exercising discipline;
                      > instrumental accompaniment of the singing, and more.
                      >
                      > "There are "circumstances" attending worship, as well as the
                      elements
                      > themselves, and one reduces the regulative principle to an
                      unworkable
                      > principle, if not to absurdity, if he attempts to apply it to every
                      > detail of worship. The New Testament church has liberty in Christ to
                      > arrange the details of her worship, and this liberty is important.
                      > The Belgic Confession claims this liberty for the Reformed church.
                      In
                      > the context of "the worship of God," the Confession states that "it
                      > is useful and beneficial that those who are rulers of the church
                      > institute and establish certain ordinances among themselves for
                      > maintaining the body of the church" (Art. 32)."
                      >
                      > -"Shall We Please God or (Certain Kinds of) People? or,
                      > The Regulative Principle of Worship (3)" by David Engelsma, Standard
                      > Bearer; May 15, 2000
                      >
                      > Colin Tayler
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.