Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalm singing

Expand Messages
  • Mark Ennis
    Fred, It is sad that instead of exclusive, most churches practice extinguished psalmody. But it is indicative of the sad state of Reformed churches that they
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 31, 2002
      Fred,
       
      It is sad that instead of exclusive, most churches practice extinguished psalmody.  But it is indicative of the sad state of Reformed churches that they hate pure worship.  Our prophets prophesy falsely, and the people love to have it so.  But the day when that changed is coming.
       
      Mark Ennis
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:57 PM
      Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalm singing

      What gets me is that the reform church in this
      country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930. Then
      they change to singing of the so call Hymns of man's
      creation. And now I see very few churches that sing
      even a little bit of the God inspired Psalms. And this
      is worship?

      __________________________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
      http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
    • solemnleague@aol.com
      In a message dated 10/31/02 2:58:19 PM Central Standard Time, ... The Synod of Dort(1618-1619) had NT and Epistle hymns(both inspired) and it allowd for use of
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 31, 2002
        In a message dated 10/31/02 2:58:19 PM Central Standard Time, followerofhim2001@... writes:

        What gets me is that the reform church in this
        country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930.


        The Synod of Dort(1618-1619) had NT and Epistle hymns(both inspired) and it allowd for use of an organ.
        Paul
      • Fredrick Fleming
        I wonder if there is a place to hear the psalm. I have heard some on http://www.psalms4u.com/ but not the whole psalm. Also some on
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 31, 2002
          I wonder if there is a place to hear the psalm. I have
          heard some on http://www.psalms4u.com/ but not the
          whole psalm. Also some on
          http://www.freechurch.org/main.html but other than
          that, I find no place.
          --- Mark Ennis <kurios22@...> wrote:
          > Fred,
          >
          > It is sad that instead of exclusive, most churches
          > practice extinguished psalmody. But it is
          > indicative of the sad state of Reformed churches
          > that they hate pure worship. Our prophets prophesy
          > falsely, and the people love to have it so. But the
          > day when that changed is coming.
          >
          > Mark Ennis
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Fredrick Fleming
          > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:57 PM
          > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalm singing
          >
          >
          > What gets me is that the reform church in this
          > country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930.
          > Then
          > they change to singing of the so call Hymns of
          > man's
          > creation. And now I see very few churches that
          > sing
          > even a little bit of the God inspired Psalms. And
          > this
          > is worship?
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
          > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >
          >
          covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          > Terms of Service.
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
          http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
        • Fredrick Fleming
          ... They may have had them, but I cannot agree with then being inspired We are told to sing the psalm of God, even singing the scripture in not inspired, we
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 31, 2002
            --- solemnleague@... wrote:

            > > What gets me is that the reform church in this
            > > country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930.


            They may have had them, but I cannot agree with then
            being "inspired" We are told to sing the psalm of
            God, even singing the scripture in not inspired, we
            are told to sing the Psalms.
            > The Synod of Dort(1618-1619) had NT and Epistle
            > hymns(both inspired) and it
            > allowd for use of an organ.
            > Paul
            >


            __________________________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
            http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
          • Thomas Britton
            ... I created a Folder in the links section named PSALM PSINGING, I put in a link to a Tasmanian Presbyterian Church that has some great Psalms recorded. Feel
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
              --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., Fredrick Fleming
              <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
              > I wonder if there is a place to hear the psalms.

              I created a Folder in the links section named PSALM PSINGING, I put in
              a link to a Tasmanian Presbyterian Church that has some great Psalms
              recorded. Feel free to keep adding to the list.

              TOm
            • Fredrick Fleming
              Where is this LINKS as? is there a place on the web that I can go to? ... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
                Where is this LINKS as? is there a place on the web
                that I can go to?
                --- Thomas Britton <bander1643@...> wrote:
                > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., Fredrick
                > Fleming
                > <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
                > > I wonder if there is a place to hear the psalms.
                >
                > I created a Folder in the links section named PSALM
                > PSINGING, I put in
                > a link to a Tasmanian Presbyterian Church that has
                > some great Psalms
                > recorded. Feel free to keep adding to the list.
                >
                > TOm
                >
                >


                __________________________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
              • Thomas Britton
                Hi! The links are in the frame on the left in the group. If you re posting by e-mail, So Solly Challey, you have to go to the group to see them. Tom
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
                  Hi!

                  The links are in the frame on the left in the group. If you're posting
                  by e-mail, So Solly Challey, you have to go to the group to see them.

                  Tom

                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., Fredrick Fleming
                  <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
                  > Where is this LINKS as? is there a place on the web
                  > that I can go to?
                  > --- Thomas Britton <bander1643@y...> wrote:
                  > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., Fredrick
                  > > Fleming
                  > > <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
                  > > > I wonder if there is a place to hear the psalms.
                  > >
                  > > I created a Folder in the links section named PSALM
                  > > PSINGING, I put in
                  > > a link to a Tasmanian Presbyterian Church that has
                  > > some great Psalms
                  > > recorded. Feel free to keep adding to the list.
                  > >
                  > > TOm
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                  > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
                • Jerry
                  Here s a link that should get you there: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/covenantedreformationclub/links/Psalm_Si nging_001036164282/ If that doesn t work, try:
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 2, 2002
                    Here's a link that should get you there:

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/covenantedreformationclub/links/Psalm_Si
                    nging_001036164282/

                    If that doesn't work, try:

                    http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1B025252

                    gmw.
                  • Gary Gearon
                    How bout Jam Master Jer, Jr. G and E ... From: Jerry To: Sent: Saturday,
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 2, 2002
                      How bout'

                      "Jam Master Jer, Jr."

                      G and E
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Jerry" <ragingcalvinist@...>
                      To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 9:58 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalm singing


                      >
                      > Here's a link that should get you there:
                      >
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/covenantedreformationclub/links/Psalm_Si
                      > nging_001036164282/
                      >
                      > If that doesn't work, try:
                      >
                      > http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1B025252
                      >
                      > gmw.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------
                      > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Pike Online, Inc.]
                      >
                      >

                      ------------------------------------------------------
                      [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Pike Online, Inc.]
                    • solemnleague@aol.com
                      Martin, I cant remember. I know I was told the place a few years ago that the Synod allowed it. I will look to find where. Paul Moore
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 3, 2002
                        Martin,
                             I cant remember. I know I was told the place a few years ago that the Synod allowed it. I will look to find where.
                        Paul Moore
                      • Martin
                        Hi Paul, Which article authorizes the use of an organ? Thanks, Martin ... From: solemnleague@aol.com To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 3, 2002
                          Hi Paul,
                           
                          Which article authorizes the use of an organ?
                           
                          Thanks,
                           
                          Martin
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 5:07 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalm singing

                          In a message dated 10/31/02 2:58:19 PM Central Standard Time, followerofhim2001@... writes:

                          What gets me is that the reform church in this
                          country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930.


                          The Synod of Dort(1618-1619) had NT and Epistle hymns(both inspired) and it allowd for use of an organ.
                          Paul


                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                          ---
                           
                          Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                          Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/02
                        • solemnleague@aol.com
                          Martin(list), I must confess that I have been looking in my faves files under Reformed stuff and I can not find this. I must offer and apology for posting
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 3, 2002
                            Martin(list),
                                 I must confess that I have been looking in my "faves" files under Reformed stuff and I can not find this. I must offer and apology for posting this. I know I was told this by a Dutch Reformed minister and thought I had the quote or info.
                            This minister told me that the 1618-1619 Synod of Dort allowed the use of Organs for Psalms.
                            Until I find otherwise...disregard my previous assertion.
                            Again....please accept my apology for posting when I didnt know what I was talking about.
                            Thanks,
                            Paul
                          • Colin
                            ... This is also the claim of the Protestant Reformed Churches of America (PRCA). They have contended that article 69 of the Synod of Dordt 1618 permits the
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 4, 2002
                              --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., solemnleague@a... wrote:
                              > Martin(list),
                              > I must confess that I have been looking in my "faves" files
                              > under Reformed stuff and I can not find this. I must offer and
                              > apology for posting this. I know I was told this by a Dutch
                              > Reformed minister and thought I had the quote or info.
                              > This minister told me that the 1618-1619 Synod of Dort allowed the
                              > use of Organs for Psalms.

                              This is also the claim of the Protestant Reformed Churches of America
                              (PRCA). They have contended that article 69 of the Synod of Dordt 1618
                              permits the use of organs.

                              "In their public worship on the Sabbath, these churches sing only the
                              Psalms (with organ accompaniment) in keeping with article 69 of the
                              Church Order adopted for the Reformed Churches by the Synod of Dordt
                              (1618-1619)" --Beliefs and Practices of Faith Protestant Reformed
                              Church.

                              This is what article 69 actually says:

                              "In the churches, only the 150 Psalms of David, the Ten Commandments,
                              the Lord's Prayer, the Twelve Articles of Faith, the Song of Mary,
                              that of Zacharias, and that of Simeon shall be sung. It is left to
                              the individual churches whether or not to use the hymn "Oh God! who
                              art our Father ." All other hymns are to be excluded from the
                              churches, and in those places where some have already been
                              introduced, they are to be removed by the most suitable means."

                              It says nothing about musical instruments.

                              Note also that the Synod did not endorse exclusive psalmody per se,
                              but rather exclusive inspired praise. The Synod however earlier in
                              the 16th century clearly ruled out the use of organs. Though some
                              would say that it was an over reaction to "popery" then prevalant in
                              those times.

                              The PRCA also believe that the Belgic Confession gives them the
                              liberty to use instruments in worship since it is seen as a
                              circumstance of worship:

                              "It is not the regulative principle that there must be an express
                              biblical command for everything that goes on in a worship service,
                              for example, what the minister wears; whether we stand or sit to pray
                              and sing; how the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper are
                              distributed; whether the singing is accompanied by an organ, begun
                              with a pitch-pipe, or led by a precentor, and the like.

                              "Some zealots like to present the regulative principle as requiring
                              biblical warrant for every detail of a worship service, but this is
                              to mistake the principle. The southern Presbyterian worthy John
                              Girardeau was guilty of this error. His is the dubious honor of
                              having authored what may be the most violent assault upon
                              instrumental accompaniment of congregational singing ever launched.
                              He called the accompaniment of congregational singing by an organ or
                              piano "heresy in the sphere of worship." But Girardeau brought
                              instrumental accompaniment under the condemnation of the regulative
                              principle by misstating the principle. He described the regulative
                              principle this way: "Whatsoever in connection with the public worship
                              of the church, is not commanded by Christ … in His Word, is
                              forbidden" (Instrumental Music in Public Worship, 1888, repr. New
                              Covenant Publication Society, 1983, p. 200; emphasis added)

                              "In fact, the church has liberty "in connection with public worship"
                              to arrange a great many details of her worship: what time she meets;
                              how often the Supper is administered, and how; the order of worship;
                              sitting or standing for prayers and songs; form prayers in
                              administering the sacraments and in exercising discipline;
                              instrumental accompaniment of the singing, and more.

                              "There are "circumstances" attending worship, as well as the elements
                              themselves, and one reduces the regulative principle to an unworkable
                              principle, if not to absurdity, if he attempts to apply it to every
                              detail of worship. The New Testament church has liberty in Christ to
                              arrange the details of her worship, and this liberty is important.
                              The Belgic Confession claims this liberty for the Reformed church. In
                              the context of "the worship of God," the Confession states that "it
                              is useful and beneficial that those who are rulers of the church
                              institute and establish certain ordinances among themselves for
                              maintaining the body of the church" (Art. 32)."

                              -"Shall We Please God or (Certain Kinds of) People? or,
                              The Regulative Principle of Worship (3)" by David Engelsma, Standard
                              Bearer; May 15, 2000

                              Colin Tayler
                            • Susan
                              Thanks for this post, Colin. I believe it is going to help me in another discussion I m having outside of clubs. Did you find the Synod of Dordt quote (art.
                              Message 14 of 14 , Nov 5, 2002
                                Thanks for this post, Colin. I believe it is going to help me in
                                another discussion I'm having outside of clubs.

                                Did you find the Synod of Dordt quote (art. 69) online? If so, where?

                                Susan

                                --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Colin " <cbx292000@y...>
                                wrote:
                                > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., solemnleague@a... wrote:
                                > > Martin(list),
                                > > I must confess that I have been looking in my "faves" files

                                > > under Reformed stuff and I can not find this. I must offer and

                                > > apology for posting this. I know I was told this by a Dutch

                                > > Reformed minister and thought I had the quote or info.
                                > > This minister told me that the 1618-1619 Synod of Dort allowed the
                                > > use of Organs for Psalms.
                                >
                                > This is also the claim of the Protestant Reformed Churches of
                                America
                                > (PRCA). They have contended that article 69 of the Synod of Dordt
                                1618
                                > permits the use of organs.
                                >
                                > "In their public worship on the Sabbath, these churches sing only
                                the
                                > Psalms (with organ accompaniment) in keeping with article 69 of the
                                > Church Order adopted for the Reformed Churches by the Synod of Dordt
                                > (1618-1619)" --Beliefs and Practices of Faith Protestant Reformed
                                > Church.
                                >
                                > This is what article 69 actually says:
                                >
                                > "In the churches, only the 150 Psalms of David, the Ten
                                Commandments,
                                > the Lord's Prayer, the Twelve Articles of Faith, the Song of Mary,
                                > that of Zacharias, and that of Simeon shall be sung. It is left to
                                > the individual churches whether or not to use the hymn "Oh God! who
                                > art our Father ." All other hymns are to be excluded from the
                                > churches, and in those places where some have already been
                                > introduced, they are to be removed by the most suitable means."
                                >
                                > It says nothing about musical instruments.
                                >
                                > Note also that the Synod did not endorse exclusive psalmody per se,
                                > but rather exclusive inspired praise. The Synod however earlier in
                                > the 16th century clearly ruled out the use of organs. Though some
                                > would say that it was an over reaction to "popery" then prevalant in
                                > those times.
                                >
                                > The PRCA also believe that the Belgic Confession gives them the
                                > liberty to use instruments in worship since it is seen as a
                                > circumstance of worship:
                                >
                                > "It is not the regulative principle that there must be an express
                                > biblical command for everything that goes on in a worship service,
                                > for example, what the minister wears; whether we stand or sit to
                                pray
                                > and sing; how the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper are
                                > distributed; whether the singing is accompanied by an organ, begun
                                > with a pitch-pipe, or led by a precentor, and the like.
                                >
                                > "Some zealots like to present the regulative principle as requiring
                                > biblical warrant for every detail of a worship service, but this is
                                > to mistake the principle. The southern Presbyterian worthy John
                                > Girardeau was guilty of this error. His is the dubious honor of
                                > having authored what may be the most violent assault upon
                                > instrumental accompaniment of congregational singing ever launched.
                                > He called the accompaniment of congregational singing by an organ or
                                > piano "heresy in the sphere of worship." But Girardeau brought
                                > instrumental accompaniment under the condemnation of the regulative
                                > principle by misstating the principle. He described the regulative
                                > principle this way: "Whatsoever in connection with the public
                                worship
                                > of the church, is not commanded by Christ … in His Word, is
                                > forbidden" (Instrumental Music in Public Worship, 1888, repr. New
                                > Covenant Publication Society, 1983, p. 200; emphasis added)
                                >
                                > "In fact, the church has liberty "in connection with public worship"
                                > to arrange a great many details of her worship: what time she meets;
                                > how often the Supper is administered, and how; the order of worship;
                                > sitting or standing for prayers and songs; form prayers in
                                > administering the sacraments and in exercising discipline;
                                > instrumental accompaniment of the singing, and more.
                                >
                                > "There are "circumstances" attending worship, as well as the
                                elements
                                > themselves, and one reduces the regulative principle to an
                                unworkable
                                > principle, if not to absurdity, if he attempts to apply it to every
                                > detail of worship. The New Testament church has liberty in Christ to
                                > arrange the details of her worship, and this liberty is important.
                                > The Belgic Confession claims this liberty for the Reformed church.
                                In
                                > the context of "the worship of God," the Confession states that "it
                                > is useful and beneficial that those who are rulers of the church
                                > institute and establish certain ordinances among themselves for
                                > maintaining the body of the church" (Art. 32)."
                                >
                                > -"Shall We Please God or (Certain Kinds of) People? or,
                                > The Regulative Principle of Worship (3)" by David Engelsma, Standard
                                > Bearer; May 15, 2000
                                >
                                > Colin Tayler
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.