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Psalm singing

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  • Fredrick Fleming
    What gets me is that the reform church in this country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930. Then they change to singing of the so call Hymns of man s
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 31, 2002
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      What gets me is that the reform church in this
      country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930. Then
      they change to singing of the so call Hymns of man's
      creation. And now I see very few churches that sing
      even a little bit of the God inspired Psalms. And this
      is worship?

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    • Jerry
      Oh you noticed that too, eh? All too true. ... gmw.
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 31, 2002
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        Oh you noticed that too, eh?
        All too true.

        :(

        gmw.

        --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., Fredrick Fleming
        <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
        > What gets me is that the reform church in this
        > country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930. Then
        > they change to singing of the so call Hymns of man's
        > creation. And now I see very few churches that sing
        > even a little bit of the God inspired Psalms. And this
        > is worship?
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
        > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
      • thebishopsdoom
        ... Would that there were the case, but that is in fact inaccurate. I can only speak for a few reformed traditions in America - Scottish / Irish Presbyterian,
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 1, 2002
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          --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., Fredrick Fleming
          <followerofhim2001@y...> wrote:
          > What gets me is that the reform church in this
          > country, were all Psalm singing until about 1930.

          Would that there were the case, but that is in fact inaccurate. I can
          only speak for a few reformed traditions in America - Scottish /
          Irish Presbyterian, Huegenot (French reformed), Hungarian Reformed,
          German Reformed, and Dutch Reformed. As for any others that may have
          been around here before 1930, I can't say what they were doing. But
          as to those that I do have some information on...

          Presbyterian:
          The psalmody debate hit the mainline presbyterians at least by 1763,
          and by 1764, allowance had been made to use "imitations of the
          psalms" - referring to Watts. The issue continued in 1773, where the
          decision was made to allow versions other than the old one approved
          for use by the Scottish General Assembly but recommending Watts be
          allowed until such time as could be reviewed. 1785 objections were
          again raised, but more to the use of a multitude of versions than
          necesarily to Watts' imitations per se. The decline in psalmody went
          from there.

          The French Reformed to my knowledge first adopted hymns of an
          uninspired nature in 1706 under the direction of Benedict Pictet in
          Geneva. Perhaps some of the other French churches adopted a few
          sooner, but it is unclear. My first definite reference is 1706 in
          Geneva. I am uncertain that there was any difference in the Huegenot
          practice in America.

          I am not sure when the Hungarian Reformed first came to America, but
          I do know that like most Eastern European reformed churches, they
          used uninspired hymnody at the beginning of their own history. This
          began to wane after the whole Psalter was translated into Magyar by
          Szenczi Molnar in 1607. I am not certain how prominent Psalmody
          remained in the Hungarian Reformed churches, but I had been under the
          impression that Transylvania was pretty much the main area of
          exclusive psalmody after this point in the Hungarian reformed
          churches, and I am not aware that all the churches there were (only
          that there was supposed to have been such a movement there, however,
          as with the German Reformed, it was done without constitutional
          pronouncements). I pretty much prsume they were practicing uninspired
          hymnody from the time they reached the American shores.

          Most of the German Reformed churches were exclusive Psalmodist from
          sometime in the early to mid 1600s until 1738, though there was a
          move under the direction of the Pietist movement that began prior to
          1738 to incorporate uninspired hymns in private worship meetings
          meeting in people's homes and agitating their entrance into the
          churches. The representatives of the German Reformed churches
          in America would (like their homeland churches) have had no
          constitutional prohibitions, but probably would have followed mostly
          in the psalmody route until about the same time. Exceptions would
          have most likely been churches from: Mark, Bremen, Brandenberg, and
          the Palatinate (though only after elector Lewis replaced Frederick to
          the seat of magistratical authority - Frederick had passed a civil
          statute making the singing of uninspired hymnody in the churches
          illegal). But even in those cases, the exceptions in the homeland
          were only singing uninspired songs about 4 times a year, despite the
          multitudes of hymns that were in the hymnals in their use in those
          regions, so the practice in America might have been predominantly
          Psalm singing, but not exclusively so, among churches in America that
          were representative of those 4 regions.

          The Dutch Reformed churches had made some pronouncements outlawing
          uninspired hymnody prior to the 1618/19 Synod of Dordt (National
          Synod of Dordt, 1578, art. 76; National Synod of Middelburg, 1581,
          art. 51; the National Synod of Hague or Gravenhage, 1586, art. 62)
          but to my recollection, the 1618/19 Synod represented a larger group
          of churches, some of whom had not had such pronouncements nor
          practice prior to that time. A concession was thus forged. The 1612
          hymnal, Hymnische Lofsangen, already under use in some Dutch churches
          was outlawed by the ecclesiastical court, but in session 162, it was
          compromised that "The 10 Commandments, the Lord's Prayer, the
          Articles of Faith, the Songs of Mary, Zechariah, and Simeon, the
          hymn 'O God who is our Father,' and so on, shall be left in the
          freedom of the Churches, whether they want to use them or not, as
          they see fit." There is apparently a discrepancy in various editions
          of the church order of Dordt, because the same section in most modern
          versions puts the material before "the hymn 'O God who is our
          Father'" under the section "shall be sung" which in this version
          places only "the 150 Psalms of David" before "shall be sung" -
          whatever the original, both Mastricht and a Brakel refer to the
          church as not having authority to mandate the singing of uninspired
          materials, and a Brakel places it as an apparently standing decision
          of "the Dutch synods," which could hardly be the case if "shall be
          sung" referred to everything before "the hymn 'O God who is our
          Father'". Further, the hymnody controversy over the principled issue
          of hymnody altogether at least would not seem as likely to have been
          an issue in 19th century Holland, America, or South Africa if these
          songs had been required in the churches under the church order of
          Dordt. (The version I am drawing from is an 1834 article written by
          deCock in Holland.) Regardless the case, it is true that many of the
          churches, however, at least did not use the additional uninspired
          songs. It was not until 1789 that a hymnal was finally published in
          Dutch for use among the reformed, and it remains unclear to me how
          widespread its popularity was (in fact I am not entirely certain
          whether it was actually in use among any of the churches). It
          was in 1807 that a hymnal was formally adopted, and it was pushed in
          1816, which sparked controversy that led eventually to the deposition
          of several Dutch ministers who refused to use it because they were
          opposed in principle to uninspired hymnody. At least one minister I
          believe was arrested when caught burying his hymnal in his frontyard.
          And the churches had problems with people marching in a procession
          outside of the church during the singing and returning only after the
          singing had finished. By by 1847, the church had so accepted them
          that the Psalms were disappearing from the worship services, much to
          the disdain and condemnation of not a few. In 1834 (or 35?) DeCock
          had led the secession from the state church, making psalmody one of
          the formal issues of secession. The churches under representation of
          the secession clearly would have been opposed to the hymns when they
          came to America, but as for the remainder of the Dutch in America,
          that was not the case, at least by the mid-1800s (I can not speak for
          before that time). In 1840, the overseers of Graafschap publically
          objected to the DRCA for the incorporation of uninspired hymns. There
          was eventually an 1857 secession over the issue (but I forget who
          they seceeded from), and the issue was brought up again I believe in
          the 1870s, though I do not recall my source for that recollection.
          However, it does show that the Dutch Reformed also were certainly
          singing uninspired hymnody prior to 1930 in America.
          -thebishopsdoom
        • Jason Robert Schuiling
          This is the background I come from. DeCock formed the Christelijke Gereformerde Kerk in the Netherlands around 1834-35 as BD pointed out, which came to America
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 1, 2002
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            This is the background I come from. DeCock formed the Christelijke
            Gereformerde Kerk in the Netherlands around 1834-35 as BD pointed
            out, which came to America in 1857 to form the Christian Reformed
            Church in North America. I don't have access to the historical
            documents I got this from but if I remember correctly this is sort
            of how in went. In 1914 the CRC adopted the 1912 New metrical
            Psalter of the United Presbyterian Church of NA (a much lesser
            quality psalter than previous ones). In the CRC edition this
            included with it the Songs of Mary, Zacharias, and Simeon together
            with 52 hymns from the classis of Hackensack which corresponded to
            the 52 Lord's Days of the Heidelberg catechism. The bible songs (non-
            psalms) were under the section titled Spiritual Songs and the
            catechitical songs under the section Hymns behind these were eight
            doxologies and "My country tis of thee". If I remember rightly the
            classis of Hackensak was group of churches that had come out of the
            DRCA (now the RCA) sometime later than the original churches in
            relation to Kuyper's Doliente movement. These were not in full
            agreement with the EP position of the CRC at that time and they
            tended to stir up some trouble. From what I have read I have the
            impression that these 'extra' songs were not first intended to be
            sung in worship but were rather for private instruction and
            enjoyment. It was several years later (I don't have the date in
            front of me) when the Hackensak churches began having sway and
            the 'extra' songs were made obligatory, many pastors would not
            comply and refused to use the songs in public worship though
            threatened to be deposed. Other pastors went along though not
            willingly. Soon Hackensack had its way and in 1934 the first Psalter
            Hymnal was published in the CRC which had a large number of hymns.
            Whats interesting is that it wasn't until acouple years later (I
            think 1938?) that the official on the books EP position was changed.
            Even the 1959 Palter Hymnal I have in front of me has 187 hymns
            compared and 310 psalm renditions. Not that this was at all a good
            thing, just to contrast that with the current Grey Hymnal that has
            only 150 (short and poor)psalms (which are rarely if ever sung)
            renditions out of about 600 songs. What is also interesting is that
            4 years befroe the adopting of the 1912 psalter, in 1910, the CRC
            revised the Belgic confession on the magistracy, by adding a
            footnote that rejected the Establishment clause, mimicing the 1905
            General Synod of the Gereformerde Kerken in Nederland, the same
            church they had seceded from. In 1938 the clause was removed
            altogether. :( Today the CRC faces many many troubles, abominable
            worhip, gross and beastly polity, apathy and much more, please pray
            for her chastisement, repentance and return to faithfullness the
            LORD willing.

            Jason


            > In 1834 (or 35?) DeCock
            > had led the secession from the state church, making psalmody one
            of
            > the formal issues of secession. The churches under representation
            of
            > the secession clearly would have been opposed to the hymns when
            they
            > came to America, but as for the remainder of the Dutch in America,
            > that was not the case, at least by the mid-1800s (I can not speak
            for
            > before that time). In 1840, the overseers of Graafschap publically
            > objected to the DRCA for the incorporation of uninspired hymns.
            There
            > was eventually an 1857 secession over the issue (but I forget who
            > they seceeded from), and the issue was brought up again I believe
            in
            > the 1870s, though I do not recall my source for that recollection.
            > However, it does show that the Dutch Reformed also were certainly
            > singing uninspired hymnody prior to 1930 in America.
            > -thebishopsdoom
          • Fredrick Fleming
            Those wanting to sing the Psalms here is a place to download 1-50 of them. Praise your Lord most high. __________________________________________________ Do
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 23, 2002
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              Those wanting to sing the Psalms here is a place to
              download 1-50 of them.

              Praise your Lord most high.

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            • Fredrick Fleming
              Forgot the site. hehehehe http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=11801194222 ... covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 23, 2002
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                Forgot the site. hehehehe

                http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=11801194222

                --- Fredrick Fleming <followerofhim2001@...>
                wrote:
                > Those wanting to sing the Psalms here is a place to
                > download 1-50 of them.
                >
                > Praise your Lord most high.
                >
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