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RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Bible version?

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  • Taylor, Judson
    I use New King James, New American Standard, or English Standard Version. My study Bible is either New Geneva (now Reformation) Study Bible or the NASB Study
    Message 1 of 30 , Aug 1, 2002
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      I use New King James, New American Standard, or English Standard Version. My study Bible is either New Geneva (now Reformation) Study Bible or the NASB Study Bible.
       
      Perhaps lightning will now strike...I don't know.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: seamrog1935 [mailto:wh.roberts@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:36 PM
      To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Bible version?

      What Bible version do Covenanters use?  Geneva, KJV, or what?  Thanks.

      Patrick/Whit



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    • raging_calvinist
      For use in family and public worship, I use the version authorized for such use -- KJV. I have various translations that I may consult every now and again for
      Message 2 of 30 , Aug 1, 2002
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        For use in family and public worship, I use the version authorized
        for such use -- KJV. I have various translations that I may consult
        every now and again for study. For private worship I also stick to
        the KJV.

        gmw.

        --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson" <judson@f...>
        wrote:
        > I use New King James, New American Standard, or English Standard
        Version. My
        > study Bible is either New Geneva (now Reformation) Study Bible or
        the NASB
        > Study Bible.
        >
        > Perhaps lightning will now strike...I don't know.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: seamrog1935 [mailto:wh.roberts@v...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:36 PM
        > To: covenantedreformationclub@y...
        > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Bible version?
        >
        >
        > What Bible version do Covenanters use? Geneva, KJV, or what?
        Thanks.
        >
        > Patrick/Whit
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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      • Taylor, Judson
        Does anyone have anything AGAINST NKJV or NASB, or even ESV?
        Message 3 of 30 , Aug 1, 2002
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          Does anyone have anything AGAINST NKJV or NASB, or even ESV?
           
        • jamescovie
          How do we know that the kjv is the right bible to use in worship and the niv or the nkjv etc... are not the way to go? Jad ... consult ... ...
          Message 4 of 30 , Aug 1, 2002
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            How do we know that the kjv is the right bible to use in worship and
            the niv or the nkjv etc... are not the way to go?
            Jad
            --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
            <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
            > For use in family and public worship, I use the version authorized
            > for such use -- KJV. I have various translations that I may
            consult
            > every now and again for study. For private worship I also stick to
            > the KJV.
            >
            > gmw.
            >
            > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson"
            <judson@f...>
            > wrote:
            > > I use New King James, New American Standard, or English Standard
            > Version. My
            > > study Bible is either New Geneva (now Reformation) Study Bible or
            > the NASB
            > > Study Bible.
            > >
            > > Perhaps lightning will now strike...I don't know.
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: seamrog1935 [mailto:wh.roberts@v...]
            > > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:36 PM
            > > To: covenantedreformationclub@y...
            > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Bible version?
            > >
            > >
            > > What Bible version do Covenanters use? Geneva, KJV, or what?
            > Thanks.
            > >
            > > Patrick/Whit
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > >
            > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            > >
            >
            <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=17
            > 061139
            > > 26:HM/A=1155070/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-
            > 1039-302>
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@y...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service
            > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
          • seamrog1935
            authorized for such use -- KJV When and how was it authorised for Reformed worship? Patrick/Whit ... consult ... ...
            Message 5 of 30 , Aug 1, 2002
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              "authorized for such use -- KJV" When and how was it authorised for
              Reformed worship?

              Patrick/Whit

              --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
              <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
              > For use in family and public worship, I use the version authorized
              > for such use -- KJV. I have various translations that I may
              consult
              > every now and again for study. For private worship I also stick to
              > the KJV.
              >
              > gmw.
              >
              > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson"
              <judson@f...>
              > wrote:
              > > I use New King James, New American Standard, or English Standard
              > Version. My
              > > study Bible is either New Geneva (now Reformation) Study Bible or
              > the NASB
              > > Study Bible.
              > >
              > > Perhaps lightning will now strike...I don't know.
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: seamrog1935 [mailto:wh.roberts@v...]
              > > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:36 PM
              > > To: covenantedreformationclub@y...
              > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Bible version?
              > >
              > >
              > > What Bible version do Covenanters use? Geneva, KJV, or what?
              > Thanks.
              > >
              > > Patrick/Whit
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > >
              > > ADVERTISEMENT
              > >
              > >
              >
              <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=17
              > 061139
              > > 26:HM/A=1155070/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-
              > 1039-302>
              > >
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@y...
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service
              > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            • seamrog1935
              My preference is the KJV and NASB, to which I recently swtiched from NIV. Our church recently switched from NIV to ESV. I am naturally suspicious of the more
              Message 6 of 30 , Aug 1, 2002
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                My preference is the KJV and NASB, to which I recently swtiched from
                NIV. Our church recently switched from NIV to ESV. I am naturally
                suspicious of the more recent Bibles because of the psychoheresy,
                false ecumenism, and other heretical stuff in the footnotes; and
                since I have never heard of ESV until the church switched this
                Spring, I am suspisicious of the ESV. However, I am getting use to
                it and starting to trust it as a reliable translation.

                Patrick/Whit
                --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson" <judson@f...>
                wrote:
                > Does anyone have anything AGAINST NKJV or NASB, or even ESV?
              • raging_calvinist
                I was looking, and I cannot find a specific act of the General Assembly authorizing it s use, but it was clear that the Westminster Assembly approved of it s
                Message 7 of 30 , Aug 2, 2002
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                  I was looking, and I cannot find a specific act of the General
                  Assembly authorizing it's use, but it was clear that the Westminster
                  Assembly approved of it's use, as they quoted it for their proof
                  texts. The point being that until a lawful General Assembly approves
                  of the use of another version, I'll be sticking with it (though
                  occassionally referencing the other versions as needed).

                  gmw.

                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "seamrog1935"
                  <wh.roberts@v...> wrote:
                  > "authorized for such use -- KJV" When and how was it authorised
                  for
                  > Reformed worship?
                  >
                  > Patrick/Whit
                  >
                  > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                  > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                  > > For use in family and public worship, I use the version
                  authorized
                  > > for such use -- KJV. I have various translations that I may
                  > consult
                  > > every now and again for study. For private worship I also stick
                  to
                  > > the KJV.
                  > >
                  > > gmw.
                  > >
                  > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson"
                  > <judson@f...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > I use New King James, New American Standard, or English
                  Standard
                  > > Version. My
                  > > > study Bible is either New Geneva (now Reformation) Study Bible
                  or
                  > > the NASB
                  > > > Study Bible.
                  > > >
                  > > > Perhaps lightning will now strike...I don't know.
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: seamrog1935 [mailto:wh.roberts@v...]
                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:36 PM
                  > > > To: covenantedreformationclub@y...
                  > > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Bible version?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > What Bible version do Covenanters use? Geneva, KJV, or what?
                  > > Thanks.
                  > > >
                  > > > Patrick/Whit
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > >
                  > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=17
                  > > 061139
                  > > > 26:HM/A=1155070/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-
                  > > 1039-302>
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@y...
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service
                  > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                • Cheryl
                  Our family uses the NKJV because that is what my dh bought us all and we can t afford to replace them with KJV which is what we use at church. But I also like
                  Message 8 of 30 , Aug 2, 2002
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                    Our family uses the NKJV because that is what my dh bought us all and we can't afford to replace them with KJV which is what we use at church.  But I also like reading the NIV to myself when I just want to read, read, read.
                     
                    Cheryl
                  • jamescovie
                    What is is the difference between the nkjv and kjv? Thanks James ... and we can t afford to replace them with KJV which is what we use at church. But I also
                    Message 9 of 30 , Aug 3, 2002
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                      What is is the difference between the nkjv and kjv?
                      Thanks
                      James




                      -- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Cheryl" <cheryl@g...> wrote:
                      > Our family uses the NKJV because that is what my dh bought us all
                      and we can't afford to replace them with KJV which is what we use at
                      church. But I also like reading the NIV to myself when I just want to
                      read, read, read.
                      >
                      > Cheryl
                    • fraasrd
                      The Authorized Version didn t need an act of the General Assembly at Westminster because it had already been authorized by King James I, right? ... Westminster
                      Message 10 of 30 , Aug 3, 2002
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                        The Authorized Version didn't need an act of the General Assembly at
                        Westminster because it had already been authorized by King James I,
                        right?
                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                        <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                        > I was looking, and I cannot find a specific act of the General
                        > Assembly authorizing it's use, but it was clear that the
                        Westminster
                        > Assembly approved of it's use, as they quoted it for their proof
                        > texts. The point being that until a lawful General Assembly
                        approves
                        > of the use of another version, I'll be sticking with it (though
                        > occassionally referencing the other versions as needed).
                        >
                        > gmw.
                        >
                        > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "seamrog1935"
                        > <wh.roberts@v...> wrote:
                        > > "authorized for such use -- KJV" When and how was it authorised
                        > for
                        > > Reformed worship?
                        > >
                        > > Patrick/Whit
                        > >
                        > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                        > > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                        > > > For use in family and public worship, I use the version
                        > authorized
                        > > > for such use -- KJV. I have various translations that I may
                        > > consult
                        > > > every now and again for study. For private worship I also
                        stick
                        > to
                        > > > the KJV.
                        > > >
                        > > > gmw.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson"
                        > > <judson@f...>
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > > I use New King James, New American Standard, or English
                        > Standard
                        > > > Version. My
                        > > > > study Bible is either New Geneva (now Reformation) Study
                        Bible
                        > or
                        > > > the NASB
                        > > > > Study Bible.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Perhaps lightning will now strike...I don't know.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > > From: seamrog1935 [mailto:wh.roberts@v...]
                        > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:36 PM
                        > > > > To: covenantedreformationclub@y...
                        > > > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Bible version?
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > What Bible version do Covenanters use? Geneva, KJV, or
                        what?
                        > > > Thanks.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Patrick/Whit
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=17
                        > > > 061139
                        > > > > 26:HM/A=1155070/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-
                        1736-
                        > > > 1039-302>
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > > > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@y...
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        > > Service
                        > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                      • vg626
                        ... wrote: The point being that until a lawful General Assembly approves of the use of another version, I ll be sticking with it (though
                        Message 11 of 30 , Aug 3, 2002
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                          --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                          <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:

                          The point being that until a lawful General Assembly approves
                          of the use of another version, I'll be sticking with it (though
                          occassionally referencing the other versions as needed).

                          gmw.


                          Whose General Assembly? And what would make it a "lawful General
                          Assembly?"

                          vg
                        • seamrog1935
                          Yes, but wasn t James I an Anglican (Arminian)? ... at ... authorised ...
                          Message 12 of 30 , Aug 3, 2002
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                            Yes, but wasn't James I an Anglican (Arminian)?

                            --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "fraasrd" <fraasrd@y...> wrote:
                            > The Authorized Version didn't need an act of the General Assembly
                            at
                            > Westminster because it had already been authorized by King James I,
                            > right?
                            > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                            > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                            > > I was looking, and I cannot find a specific act of the General
                            > > Assembly authorizing it's use, but it was clear that the
                            > Westminster
                            > > Assembly approved of it's use, as they quoted it for their proof
                            > > texts. The point being that until a lawful General Assembly
                            > approves
                            > > of the use of another version, I'll be sticking with it (though
                            > > occassionally referencing the other versions as needed).
                            > >
                            > > gmw.
                            > >
                            > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "seamrog1935"
                            > > <wh.roberts@v...> wrote:
                            > > > "authorized for such use -- KJV" When and how was it
                            authorised
                            > > for
                            > > > Reformed worship?
                            > > >
                            > > > Patrick/Whit
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                            > > > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                            > > > > For use in family and public worship, I use the version
                            > > authorized
                            > > > > for such use -- KJV. I have various translations that I may
                            > > > consult
                            > > > > every now and again for study. For private worship I also
                            > stick
                            > > to
                            > > > > the KJV.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > gmw.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson"
                            > > > <judson@f...>
                            > > > > wrote:
                            > > > > > I use New King James, New American Standard, or English
                            > > Standard
                            > > > > Version. My
                            > > > > > study Bible is either New Geneva (now Reformation) Study
                            > Bible
                            > > or
                            > > > > the NASB
                            > > > > > Study Bible.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Perhaps lightning will now strike...I don't know.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > > > From: seamrog1935 [mailto:wh.roberts@v...]
                            > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:36 PM
                            > > > > > To: covenantedreformationclub@y...
                            > > > > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Bible version?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > What Bible version do Covenanters use? Geneva, KJV, or
                            > what?
                            > > > > Thanks.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Patrick/Whit
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=17
                            > > > > 061139
                            > > > > > 26:HM/A=1155070/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-
                            > 1736-
                            > > > > 1039-302>
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > > > > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@y...
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            > > > Service
                            > > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                          • vg626
                            Worse than that. He preferred young boys to adult women. He was a flaming homosexual! He had no interest in Bible translation. He wanted to get rid of the
                            Message 13 of 30 , Aug 3, 2002
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                              Worse than that. He preferred young boys to adult women. He was a
                              flaming homosexual! He had no interest in Bible translation. He
                              wanted to get rid of the Geneva Bible with its marginal notes that
                              were so popular with the people.

                              vg

                              --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "seamrog1935"
                              <wh.roberts@v...> wrote:
                              > Yes, but wasn't James I an Anglican (Arminian)?
                              >
                              > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "fraasrd" <fraasrd@y...>
                              wrote:
                              > > The Authorized Version didn't need an act of the General Assembly
                              > at
                              > > Westminster because it had already been authorized by King James
                              I,
                              > > right?
                              > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                              > > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                              > > > I was looking, and I cannot find a specific act of the General
                              > > > Assembly authorizing it's use, but it was clear that the
                              > > Westminster
                              > > > Assembly approved of it's use, as they quoted it for their
                              proof
                              > > > texts. The point being that until a lawful General Assembly
                              > > approves
                              > > > of the use of another version, I'll be sticking with it (though
                              > > > occassionally referencing the other versions as needed).
                              > > >
                              > > > gmw.
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "seamrog1935"
                              > > > <wh.roberts@v...> wrote:
                              > > > > "authorized for such use -- KJV" When and how was it
                              > authorised
                              > > > for
                              > > > > Reformed worship?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Patrick/Whit
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                              > > > > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                              > > > > > For use in family and public worship, I use the version
                              > > > authorized
                              > > > > > for such use -- KJV. I have various translations that I
                              may
                              > > > > consult
                              > > > > > every now and again for study. For private worship I also
                              > > stick
                              > > > to
                              > > > > > the KJV.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > gmw.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson"
                              > > > > <judson@f...>
                              > > > > > wrote:
                              > > > > > > I use New King James, New American Standard, or English
                              > > > Standard
                              > > > > > Version. My
                              > > > > > > study Bible is either New Geneva (now Reformation) Study
                              > > Bible
                              > > > or
                              > > > > > the NASB
                              > > > > > > Study Bible.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Perhaps lightning will now strike...I don't know.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > > > > From: seamrog1935 [mailto:wh.roberts@v...]
                              > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:36 PM
                              > > > > > > To: covenantedreformationclub@y...
                              > > > > > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Bible version?
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > What Bible version do Covenanters use? Geneva, KJV, or
                              > > what?
                              > > > > > Thanks.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Patrick/Whit
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=17
                              > > > > > 061139
                              > > > > > >
                              26:HM/A=1155070/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-
                              > > 1736-
                              > > > > > 1039-302>
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
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                            • raging_calvinist
                              According to Robert Baillie (Canterburian s Self-Conviction), James considered Arminianism to be a damnable heresy, and the public spreading of it to be a
                              Message 14 of 30 , Aug 3, 2002
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                                According to Robert Baillie (Canterburian's
                                Self-Conviction), James considered Arminianism to be a damnable
                                heresy, and the public spreading of it to be a crime punishable by
                                death (as evidenced by his judgement of Bertius):

                                "Charles' eye no evidence useth to be so demonstrative as that which
                                cometh from the learned hand of his blessed Father. Would we know how
                                gracious a Plant Arminianism and the dressers of it will prove in
                                England, or any where else, advise with King James, who after full
                                trial and long consultation about this emergent, with the Divines of
                                his Court, especially the late archbishop Abbots gave out at last his
                                Decree in print, and that in Latin, not only for a present
                                declaration to the States of Holland of his mind against Vorstius,
                                and a clear Confession of his Faith in those points to the Christian
                                World, but above all to remain a perpetual Register for his heirs and
                                successors, of his faithful advise, if after his death their Kingdoms
                                should be ever in danger to be pestered with that wicked
                                seed.

                                "In that treatise, his Majesty doth first avow all them to be gross
                                liars, who do not blush to affirm that any of the Arminian articles,
                                even that most plausible one of the Saints apostacy are consonant
                                with the Doctrine or articles of the Church of England. He stileth
                                Bertius for such a slander, a very impudent and brazen-faced man.
                                (2.) He pronounceth these Doctrines of Arminius to be heresies lately
                                revived and damnable to the hells, from whence they come. (3.) That
                                Bertius for the very title of his book, The Saints Apostacy, deserved
                                burning. (4.) That Arminius and his Scholars were to be reputed
                                pests, enemies to God, proud, schismatical, heretical, Atheists. (5.)
                                He affirmeth that their toleration would not fail to bring upon the
                                heads of their toleraters, let be favorers, God's malediction, an evil
                                report, slander and infamy with all the Churches abroad, and certain
                                Schism, division and tumults at home."

                                Anglicans got their problems, but Anglicanism is not Arminian, as
                                Articles 9, 10 and 17 of the 39 Articles demonstrate.

                                As for James' sexual preference, I'll leave that topic for others to
                                prosecute!

                                gmw.
                              • raging_calvinist
                                Whose General Assembly? And what would make it a lawful General Assembly? Whose General Assembly? Why the General Assembly of the Church of the United
                                Message 15 of 30 , Aug 3, 2002
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                                  "Whose General Assembly? And what would make it a 'lawful General
                                  Assembly?'"

                                  Whose General Assembly? Why the General Assembly of the Church of
                                  the United States! What? There is no such thing? Well then we'll
                                  have to wait a while, I suppose.

                                  What would make it a lawful General Assembly? For starters, it would
                                  have to be one that is proven faithful in retaining those Reformation
                                  attainments fought so hard for during the 1st and 2nd Reformation.
                                  Most groups calling themselves a general assembly are not truly
                                  General Assemblies (how can there be a GENERAL assembly over so many
                                  different "Presbyterian" denominations?), and are in a state of
                                  decline and "DEformation" (neglecting or even trampling on
                                  Reformation Principles).

                                  gmw.

                                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., vg626 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                  > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                                  > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The point being that until a lawful General Assembly approves
                                  > of the use of another version, I'll be sticking with it (though
                                  > occassionally referencing the other versions as needed).
                                  >
                                  > gmw.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Whose General Assembly? And what would make it a "lawful General
                                  > Assembly?"
                                  >
                                  > vg
                                • vg626
                                  Anglicans got their problems, but Anglicanism is not Arminian, as Articles 9, 10 and 17 of the 39 Articles demonstrate. As for James sexual preference, I ll
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Aug 3, 2002
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                                    Anglicans got their problems, but Anglicanism is not Arminian, as
                                    Articles 9, 10 and 17 of the 39 Articles demonstrate.

                                    As for James' sexual preference, I'll leave that topic for others to
                                    prosecute!

                                    gmw.



                                    I'm not sure I understand your point? As long as he wasn't an
                                    Arminian and he endorsed the KJV, the fact that he liked young boys
                                    instead of adult women is irrelevant?

                                    vg
                                  • vg626
                                    ... vg So there is no acceptable General Assembly of any Presbyterian Church in the United States that you would recognize? ... would ... Reformation ... many
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Aug 3, 2002
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                                      --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                                      <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:

                                      > "Whose General Assembly? And what would make it a 'lawful General
                                      > Assembly?'"
                                      >
                                      > Whose General Assembly? Why the General Assembly of the Church of
                                      > the United States! What? There is no such thing? Well then we'll
                                      > have to wait a while, I suppose.


                                      vg So there is no acceptable General Assembly of any Presbyterian
                                      Church in the United States that you would recognize?
                                      >


                                      > What would make it a lawful General Assembly? For starters, it
                                      would
                                      > have to be one that is proven faithful in retaining those
                                      Reformation
                                      > attainments fought so hard for during the 1st and 2nd Reformation.
                                      > Most groups calling themselves a general assembly are not truly
                                      > General Assemblies (how can there be a GENERAL assembly over so
                                      many
                                      > different "Presbyterian" denominations?), and are in a state of
                                      > decline and "DEformation" (neglecting or even trampling on
                                      > Reformation Principles).
                                      >

                                      vg On top of that, in your view, there is no 'lawful General
                                      Assembly' in any denomination in the United States today? Is there
                                      a "lawful General Assembly" anywhere in the world, today, in your
                                      view? If not, was there ever one, when, where and what made it lawful
                                      whereas none of them are today?
                                    • raging_calvinist
                                      Not my point at all! Just saying I know little about that, though I ve heard it alleged. So, I ll leave it others discuss that point as they like. That s
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Aug 4, 2002
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                                        Not my point at all! Just saying I know little about that, though
                                        I've heard it alleged. So, I'll leave it others discuss that point
                                        as they like. That's all.

                                        gmw.



                                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., vg626 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                        > Anglicans got their problems, but Anglicanism is not Arminian, as
                                        > Articles 9, 10 and 17 of the 39 Articles demonstrate.
                                        >
                                        > As for James' sexual preference, I'll leave that topic for others
                                        to
                                        > prosecute!
                                        >
                                        > gmw.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I'm not sure I understand your point? As long as he wasn't an
                                        > Arminian and he endorsed the KJV, the fact that he liked young boys
                                        > instead of adult women is irrelevant?
                                        >
                                        > vg
                                      • raging_calvinist
                                        If someone wants to point out a lawful General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church, I d be happy to look into it. I d rather not be out here on the fringe if
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Aug 4, 2002
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                                          If someone wants to point out a lawful General Assembly of the
                                          Presbyterian Church, I'd be happy to look into it. I'd rather not be
                                          out here on the fringe if I don't have to be.

                                          gmw.

                                          --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., vg626 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                          > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                                          > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > "Whose General Assembly? And what would make it a 'lawful General
                                          > > Assembly?'"
                                          > >
                                          > > Whose General Assembly? Why the General Assembly of the Church
                                          of
                                          > > the United States! What? There is no such thing? Well then
                                          we'll
                                          > > have to wait a while, I suppose.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > vg So there is no acceptable General Assembly of any Presbyterian
                                          > Church in the United States that you would recognize?
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > What would make it a lawful General Assembly? For starters, it
                                          > would
                                          > > have to be one that is proven faithful in retaining those
                                          > Reformation
                                          > > attainments fought so hard for during the 1st and 2nd
                                          Reformation.
                                          > > Most groups calling themselves a general assembly are not truly
                                          > > General Assemblies (how can there be a GENERAL assembly over so
                                          > many
                                          > > different "Presbyterian" denominations?), and are in a state of
                                          > > decline and "DEformation" (neglecting or even trampling on
                                          > > Reformation Principles).
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > vg On top of that, in your view, there is no 'lawful General
                                          > Assembly' in any denomination in the United States today? Is there
                                          > a "lawful General Assembly" anywhere in the world, today, in your
                                          > view? If not, was there ever one, when, where and what made it
                                          lawful
                                          > whereas none of them are today?
                                        • vg626
                                          vg So there is no acceptable General Assembly of any Presbyterian Church in the United States that you would recognize? vg On top of that, in your view, there
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Aug 4, 2002
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                                            vg
                                            So there is no acceptable General Assembly of any Presbyterian
                                            Church in the United States that you would recognize?

                                            vg
                                            On top of that, in your view, there is no 'lawful General
                                            Assembly' in any denomination in the United States today? Is there
                                            a "lawful General Assembly" anywhere in the world, today, in your
                                            view? If not, was there ever one, when, where and what made it
                                            lawful whereas none of them are today?

                                            --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                                            <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:

                                            If someone wants to point out a lawful General Assembly of the
                                            Presbyterian Church, I'd be happy to look into it. I'd rather not be
                                            out here on the fringe if I don't have to be.

                                            gmw.


                                            vg
                                            So the bottom line to my questions above is that, as far as you know,
                                            there isn't one now and there never has been a "lawful General
                                            Assembly of the Presbyterian Church?"

                                            Let me ask a follow-up question. Is there a true church of Christ
                                            (Presbyterian or otherwise) anywhere in the United States today? If
                                            so, would you name it and where it is located?
                                          • seamrog1935
                                            Indeed, I ve read the 39 Articles and have asked Anglicans about them. According to their answers and the entire 39 Articles, they are not Reformed for they
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Aug 4, 2002
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                                              Indeed, I've read the 39 Articles and have asked Anglicans about
                                              them. According to their answers and the entire 39 Articles, they
                                              are not Reformed for they do not believe the
                                              Preservation/Perseverance of the Saints.

                                              Patrick

                                              --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., vg626 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                              > Anglicans got their problems, but Anglicanism is not Arminian, as
                                              > Articles 9, 10 and 17 of the 39 Articles demonstrate.
                                              >
                                              > As for James' sexual preference, I'll leave that topic for others
                                              to
                                              > prosecute!
                                              >
                                              > gmw.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I'm not sure I understand your point? As long as he wasn't an
                                              > Arminian and he endorsed the KJV, the fact that he liked young boys
                                              > instead of adult women is irrelevant?
                                              >
                                              > vg
                                            • seamrog1935
                                              So, as I see from your post, James I at least was not Arminian. Interesting that a King, who obviously opposed Arminianism, upheld the Arminian Anglican church
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Aug 4, 2002
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                                                So, as I see from your post, James I at least was not Arminian.
                                                Interesting that a King, who obviously opposed Arminianism, upheld
                                                the Arminian Anglican church as an oath of his office. Then again, I
                                                would rather have I King like that rather than a Papist monarch.

                                                Patrick

                                                --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                                                <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                                                > According to Robert Baillie (Canterburian's
                                                > Self-Conviction), James considered Arminianism to be a damnable
                                                > heresy, and the public spreading of it to be a crime punishable by
                                                > death (as evidenced by his judgement of Bertius):
                                                >
                                                > "Charles' eye no evidence useth to be so demonstrative as that
                                                which
                                                > cometh from the learned hand of his blessed Father. Would we know
                                                how
                                                > gracious a Plant Arminianism and the dressers of it will prove in
                                                > England, or any where else, advise with King James, who after full
                                                > trial and long consultation about this emergent, with the Divines
                                                of
                                                > his Court, especially the late archbishop Abbots gave out at last
                                                his
                                                > Decree in print, and that in Latin, not only for a present
                                                > declaration to the States of Holland of his mind against Vorstius,
                                                > and a clear Confession of his Faith in those points to the
                                                Christian
                                                > World, but above all to remain a perpetual Register for his heirs
                                                and
                                                > successors, of his faithful advise, if after his death their
                                                Kingdoms
                                                > should be ever in danger to be pestered with that wicked
                                                > seed.
                                                >
                                                > "In that treatise, his Majesty doth first avow all them to be gross
                                                > liars, who do not blush to affirm that any of the Arminian
                                                articles,
                                                > even that most plausible one of the Saints apostacy are consonant
                                                > with the Doctrine or articles of the Church of England. He stileth
                                                > Bertius for such a slander, a very impudent and brazen-faced man.
                                                > (2.) He pronounceth these Doctrines of Arminius to be heresies
                                                lately
                                                > revived and damnable to the hells, from whence they come. (3.) That
                                                > Bertius for the very title of his book, The Saints Apostacy,
                                                deserved
                                                > burning. (4.) That Arminius and his Scholars were to be reputed
                                                > pests, enemies to God, proud, schismatical, heretical, Atheists.
                                                (5.)
                                                > He affirmeth that their toleration would not fail to bring upon the
                                                > heads of their toleraters, let be favorers, God's malediction, an
                                                evil
                                                > report, slander and infamy with all the Churches abroad, and
                                                certain
                                                > Schism, division and tumults at home."
                                                >
                                                > Anglicans got their problems, but Anglicanism is not Arminian, as
                                                > Articles 9, 10 and 17 of the 39 Articles demonstrate.
                                                >
                                                > As for James' sexual preference, I'll leave that topic for others
                                                to
                                                > prosecute!
                                                >
                                                > gmw.
                                              • raging_calvinist
                                                ... That s pretty much where I m at right now, yeah. ... Is there a lawful general assembly anywhere in the world today? I have no idea, as my survey of the
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Aug 5, 2002
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                                                  > vg
                                                  > So there is no acceptable General Assembly of any Presbyterian
                                                  > Church in the United States that you would recognize?

                                                  That's pretty much where I'm at right now, yeah.

                                                  > On top of that, in your view, there is no 'lawful General
                                                  > Assembly' in any denomination in the United States today? Is there
                                                  > a "lawful General Assembly" anywhere in the world, today, in your
                                                  > view? If not, was there ever one, when, where and what made it
                                                  > lawful whereas none of them are today?

                                                  Is there a lawful general assembly anywhere in the world today? I
                                                  have no idea, as my survey of the world is quite limited.

                                                  Sure, there were lawful General Assemblies during the first and
                                                  second Reformations in various countries -- when they began to
                                                  forsake the Covenants they swore themselves to, when they began to
                                                  fall back from their Reformation attainments, etc, they began
                                                  their "deformation," and no Christian is required to participate in
                                                  deformation.

                                                  gmw.


                                                  > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                                                  > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > If someone wants to point out a lawful General Assembly of the
                                                  > Presbyterian Church, I'd be happy to look into it. I'd rather not
                                                  be
                                                  > out here on the fringe if I don't have to be.
                                                  >
                                                  > gmw.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > vg
                                                  > So the bottom line to my questions above is that, as far as you
                                                  know,
                                                  > there isn't one now and there never has been a "lawful General
                                                  > Assembly of the Presbyterian Church?"
                                                  >
                                                  > Let me ask a follow-up question. Is there a true church of Christ
                                                  > (Presbyterian or otherwise) anywhere in the United States today? If
                                                  > so, would you name it and where it is located?
                                                • raging_calvinist
                                                  Hi Patrick, I was wondering if you could maybe post the sections in which they deny the Preservation/Perserverane of the Saints? Or is it that they have
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Aug 5, 2002
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                                                    Hi Patrick,

                                                    I was wondering if you could maybe post the sections in which they
                                                    deny the Preservation/Perserverane of the Saints? Or is it that they
                                                    have failed to affirm it?

                                                    gmw.
                                                  • raging_calvinist
                                                    The differences between KJV and NKJV? Well, here s a post that shows that the NKJV is Satanic, like Metal/Rap band P.O.D. :http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html Just
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Aug 5, 2002
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                                                      The differences between KJV and NKJV?

                                                      Well, here's a post that shows that the NKJV is Satanic, like
                                                      Metal/Rap band P.O.D. :http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html

                                                      Just kidding! That website made me laugh. Here's another one that
                                                      demonstrates that many of the changes that were made in the NKJV were
                                                      useless and sometimes detrimental:

                                                      http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html

                                                      Here's another link, calling the NKJV a "deadly translation." Just
                                                      skip down to the chart at the bottom and see how helpful some of
                                                      the "updated" words are: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/nkjvdead.htm

                                                      gmw.

                                                      --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "jamescovie" <jamescovie@y...>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      > What is is the difference between the nkjv and kjv?
                                                      > Thanks
                                                      > James
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > -- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Cheryl" <cheryl@g...> wrote:
                                                      > > Our family uses the NKJV because that is what my dh bought us all
                                                      > and we can't afford to replace them with KJV which is what we use
                                                      at
                                                      > church. But I also like reading the NIV to myself when I just want
                                                      to
                                                      > read, read, read.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Cheryl
                                                    • Jasper Wall
                                                      This is why reformed folks do not eat beer pretzels. ;) jasper The three esoteric 6 s separated. Plainly displaying the interlocked 666 .
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Aug 5, 2002
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                                                        This is why reformed folks do not eat beer pretzels.

                                                        ;)           jasper

                                                        The three esoteric "6"'s separated.
                                                        Plainly displaying the interlocked "666".

                                                         

                                                         raging_calvinist wrote:

                                                        The differences between KJV and NKJV?

                                                        Well, here's a post that shows that the NKJV is Satanic, like
                                                        Metal/Rap band P.O.D. :http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html

                                                        Just kidding!  That website made me laugh.  Here's another one that
                                                        demonstrates that many of the changes that were made in the NKJV were
                                                        useless and sometimes detrimental:

                                                        http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html

                                                        Here's another link, calling the NKJV a "deadly translation."  Just
                                                        skip down to the chart at the bottom and see how helpful some of
                                                        the "updated" words are:  http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/nkjvdead.htm

                                                        gmw.

                                                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "jamescovie" <jamescovie@y...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        > What is is the difference between the nkjv and kjv?
                                                        >                    Thanks
                                                        >                    James
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > -- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Cheryl" <cheryl@g...> wrote:
                                                        > > Our family uses the NKJV because that is what my dh bought us all
                                                        > and we can't afford to replace them with KJV which is what we use
                                                        at
                                                        > church.  But I also like reading the NIV to myself when I just want
                                                        to
                                                        > read, read, read.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Cheryl



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                                                      • seamrog1935
                                                        I was questioning Article 16: XVI. Of Sin after Baptism. Not every deadly sin willingly commited after Baptism is sin against the Holy Ghost, and
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Aug 5, 2002
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                                                          I was questioning Article 16:

                                                          "XVI. Of Sin after Baptism.

                                                          Not every deadly sin willingly commited after Baptism is sin against
                                                          the Holy Ghost, and unpardonable. Wherefore the grant of repentance
                                                          is not to be denied to such as fall into sin after Baptism. After we
                                                          have received the Holy Ghost, we may depart from grace given, and
                                                          fall into sin, and by the grace of God we may arise again and amend
                                                          our lives. And therefore they are to be condemned, which say, they
                                                          can no more sini as long as they live here, or deny the place of
                                                          forgiveness to such as truly repent."

                                                          It seems to say that we are able to fall from Salvific Grace after
                                                          Baptism and then re-gain that Grace after repenting. Very grey
                                                          wording to me. However, today, I read the their Catechism in their
                                                          Prayer Book since Catechisms go into greater detail to expound on
                                                          their beliefs and articles. After reading the last catechetical
                                                          question, I reversed my conclusion and concluded as you did (i.e,
                                                          that they affirm all 5 Doctrines of Grace):

                                                          "Q. What, then, is our assurance as Christians?
                                                          A. Our assurance as Christians is that nothing, not even death, shall
                                                          separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

                                                          However, on a Wesleyan site, it mentions that Anglicans in general
                                                          shifted towards the True Religion (Reformed Faith) and some stayed
                                                          Arminian.

                                                          Anyway, officially, per their Catechism, you are right. They are
                                                          Reformed in a soteriological sense.

                                                          Patrick


                                                          --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                                                          <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                                                          > Hi Patrick,
                                                          >
                                                          > I was wondering if you could maybe post the sections in which they
                                                          > deny the Preservation/Perserverane of the Saints? Or is it that
                                                          they
                                                          > have failed to affirm it?
                                                          >
                                                          > gmw.
                                                        • elena_gearon
                                                          Announcing the Greatest Start Up Opportunity of the Millenium!: GOLDEN AGE Headcoverings, Inc. Reuters AP newsscoup: With the fast approaching Millenium or
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Aug 5, 2002
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                                                            Announcing the Greatest Start Up Opportunity of the Millenium!:

                                                            "GOLDEN AGE" Headcoverings, Inc.

                                                            Reuters AP newsscoup:

                                                            With the fast approaching Millenium or "Golden Age" as some Reformed
                                                            Protestants believe, on its way; some enterprising Christian
                                                            Businessmen, are investing in what is forecast to be the greatest
                                                            fashion change to span the globe in women's headgear. Yes indeed,
                                                            many women are expected to go BACK to the common belief of the Second
                                                            Reformation, that they must wear an outward sign or token of
                                                            submission to men...(cont.)

                                                            Golden age Headcoverings, inc. is positioning itself to be ready for
                                                            the promised trend: "When the earth shall be FILLED with the
                                                            knowledge of the Lord." They are introducing various forms of
                                                            haedcoverings according to the "custom of each nation." Buy now and
                                                            receive the 1 Cor. 11 commentary of your favorite Church father from
                                                            Calvin to Tertullian stitched into the veil of your choice!


                                                            To view some of the latest designs check:

                                                            HTTeePee:// Calvin Veil with Stitch Commentary from 1 Cor. 11
                                                            HTTeePee:// Tertullian Veil with Latin Commentary
                                                            HTTeePee:// Durham's: "Thou Shalt not Commit Adultery Veil"


                                                            Also, for a limited time, receive the new bumper sticker:
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                                                            Martin Luther, David Dickson, James Durham, Samuel Rutherford, George
                                                            Gillespie to name a few, with all orders. Order now and get an
                                                            extrapolated commentary by John Calvin on "Convertibles and Women:
                                                            Does a ragtop count as a headcovering, when its up?" You will see why
                                                            he says yes (in certain cases of necessity).

                                                            This is sure to bring a new meaning to the phrase "Cover Girl," and
                                                            so if you order before 12 tonight, you will recieve a full year
                                                            subscription to "Cover Girl of the Golden Age" magazine (located
                                                            where "Cosmopolitan" used to be)with this month's special commentary
                                                            on the Proverbs 31 Woman! In it you will see all the latest trends
                                                            across the globe on veiling from culture to culture, and an
                                                            historical chart on veiling across the Centuries and Continents.

                                                            Gary
                                                          • fraasrd
                                                            What is the Arminian Anglican Church ? Bishop Cranmer and other reformed leaders inserted much good theology into the Anglican doctrine, (such as that
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Aug 7, 2002
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                                                              What is the "Arminian Anglican Church"? Bishop Cranmer and other
                                                              reformed leaders inserted much good theology into the Anglican
                                                              doctrine, (such as that contained in the 39 articles), but the wide-
                                                              open, permissive Anglican approach to theology has left room for
                                                              Arminianism to creep in. There have been all kinds of beliefs and
                                                              types of worship in the Anglican church for a long time. That's my
                                                              take on it.

                                                              Dan

                                                              --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "seamrog1935"
                                                              <wh.roberts@v...> wrote:
                                                              > So, as I see from your post, James I at least was not Arminian.
                                                              > Interesting that a King, who obviously opposed Arminianism, upheld
                                                              > the Arminian Anglican church as an oath of his office. Then again,
                                                              I
                                                              > would rather have I King like that rather than a Papist monarch.
                                                              >
                                                              > Patrick
                                                              >
                                                              > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                                                              > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                                                              > > According to Robert Baillie (Canterburian's
                                                              > > Self-Conviction), James considered Arminianism to be a damnable
                                                              > > heresy, and the public spreading of it to be a crime punishable
                                                              by
                                                              > > death (as evidenced by his judgement of Bertius):
                                                              > >
                                                              > > "Charles' eye no evidence useth to be so demonstrative as that
                                                              > which
                                                              > > cometh from the learned hand of his blessed Father. Would we know
                                                              > how
                                                              > > gracious a Plant Arminianism and the dressers of it will prove in
                                                              > > England, or any where else, advise with King James, who after
                                                              full
                                                              > > trial and long consultation about this emergent, with the Divines
                                                              > of
                                                              > > his Court, especially the late archbishop Abbots gave out at last
                                                              > his
                                                              > > Decree in print, and that in Latin, not only for a present
                                                              > > declaration to the States of Holland of his mind against
                                                              Vorstius,
                                                              > > and a clear Confession of his Faith in those points to the
                                                              > Christian
                                                              > > World, but above all to remain a perpetual Register for his heirs
                                                              > and
                                                              > > successors, of his faithful advise, if after his death their
                                                              > Kingdoms
                                                              > > should be ever in danger to be pestered with that wicked
                                                              > > seed.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > "In that treatise, his Majesty doth first avow all them to be
                                                              gross
                                                              > > liars, who do not blush to affirm that any of the Arminian
                                                              > articles,
                                                              > > even that most plausible one of the Saints apostacy are consonant
                                                              > > with the Doctrine or articles of the Church of England. He
                                                              stileth
                                                              > > Bertius for such a slander, a very impudent and brazen-faced man.
                                                              > > (2.) He pronounceth these Doctrines of Arminius to be heresies
                                                              > lately
                                                              > > revived and damnable to the hells, from whence they come. (3.)
                                                              That
                                                              > > Bertius for the very title of his book, The Saints Apostacy,
                                                              > deserved
                                                              > > burning. (4.) That Arminius and his Scholars were to be reputed
                                                              > > pests, enemies to God, proud, schismatical, heretical, Atheists.
                                                              > (5.)
                                                              > > He affirmeth that their toleration would not fail to bring upon
                                                              the
                                                              > > heads of their toleraters, let be favorers, God's malediction, an
                                                              > evil
                                                              > > report, slander and infamy with all the Churches abroad, and
                                                              > certain
                                                              > > Schism, division and tumults at home."
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Anglicans got their problems, but Anglicanism is not Arminian, as
                                                              > > Articles 9, 10 and 17 of the 39 Articles demonstrate.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > As for James' sexual preference, I'll leave that topic for others
                                                              > to
                                                              > > prosecute!
                                                              > >
                                                              > > gmw.
                                                            • seamrog1935
                                                              Based on my post where I corrected myself, you may ignore Arminian Anglican church I said. Patrick ... upheld ... again, ... know ... in ... Divines ... last
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Aug 8, 2002
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                                                                Based on my post where I corrected myself, you may ignore "Arminian
                                                                Anglican church" I said.

                                                                Patrick

                                                                --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "fraasrd" <fraasrd@y...> wrote:
                                                                > What is the "Arminian Anglican Church"? Bishop Cranmer and other
                                                                > reformed leaders inserted much good theology into the Anglican
                                                                > doctrine, (such as that contained in the 39 articles), but the wide-
                                                                > open, permissive Anglican approach to theology has left room for
                                                                > Arminianism to creep in. There have been all kinds of beliefs and
                                                                > types of worship in the Anglican church for a long time. That's my
                                                                > take on it.
                                                                >
                                                                > Dan
                                                                >
                                                                > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "seamrog1935"
                                                                > <wh.roberts@v...> wrote:
                                                                > > So, as I see from your post, James I at least was not Arminian.
                                                                > > Interesting that a King, who obviously opposed Arminianism,
                                                                upheld
                                                                > > the Arminian Anglican church as an oath of his office. Then
                                                                again,
                                                                > I
                                                                > > would rather have I King like that rather than a Papist monarch.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Patrick
                                                                > >
                                                                > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
                                                                > > <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
                                                                > > > According to Robert Baillie (Canterburian's
                                                                > > > Self-Conviction), James considered Arminianism to be a damnable
                                                                > > > heresy, and the public spreading of it to be a crime punishable
                                                                > by
                                                                > > > death (as evidenced by his judgement of Bertius):
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > "Charles' eye no evidence useth to be so demonstrative as that
                                                                > > which
                                                                > > > cometh from the learned hand of his blessed Father. Would we
                                                                know
                                                                > > how
                                                                > > > gracious a Plant Arminianism and the dressers of it will prove
                                                                in
                                                                > > > England, or any where else, advise with King James, who after
                                                                > full
                                                                > > > trial and long consultation about this emergent, with the
                                                                Divines
                                                                > > of
                                                                > > > his Court, especially the late archbishop Abbots gave out at
                                                                last
                                                                > > his
                                                                > > > Decree in print, and that in Latin, not only for a present
                                                                > > > declaration to the States of Holland of his mind against
                                                                > Vorstius,
                                                                > > > and a clear Confession of his Faith in those points to the
                                                                > > Christian
                                                                > > > World, but above all to remain a perpetual Register for his
                                                                heirs
                                                                > > and
                                                                > > > successors, of his faithful advise, if after his death their
                                                                > > Kingdoms
                                                                > > > should be ever in danger to be pestered with that wicked
                                                                > > > seed.
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > "In that treatise, his Majesty doth first avow all them to be
                                                                > gross
                                                                > > > liars, who do not blush to affirm that any of the Arminian
                                                                > > articles,
                                                                > > > even that most plausible one of the Saints apostacy are
                                                                consonant
                                                                > > > with the Doctrine or articles of the Church of England. He
                                                                > stileth
                                                                > > > Bertius for such a slander, a very impudent and brazen-faced
                                                                man.
                                                                > > > (2.) He pronounceth these Doctrines of Arminius to be heresies
                                                                > > lately
                                                                > > > revived and damnable to the hells, from whence they come. (3.)
                                                                > That
                                                                > > > Bertius for the very title of his book, The Saints Apostacy,
                                                                > > deserved
                                                                > > > burning. (4.) That Arminius and his Scholars were to be reputed
                                                                > > > pests, enemies to God, proud, schismatical, heretical,
                                                                Atheists.
                                                                > > (5.)
                                                                > > > He affirmeth that their toleration would not fail to bring upon
                                                                > the
                                                                > > > heads of their toleraters, let be favorers, God's malediction,
                                                                an
                                                                > > evil
                                                                > > > report, slander and infamy with all the Churches abroad, and
                                                                > > certain
                                                                > > > Schism, division and tumults at home."
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Anglicans got their problems, but Anglicanism is not Arminian,
                                                                as
                                                                > > > Articles 9, 10 and 17 of the 39 Articles demonstrate.
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > As for James' sexual preference, I'll leave that topic for
                                                                others
                                                                > > to
                                                                > > > prosecute!
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > gmw.
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